#21

Which of the Pendulum products?

#22

From one of the links, it seems apple cider vinegar could be as good as Pendulumā€™s Akkermansia Municiphila at a fraction of the cost, for blood sugar control. So why use Pendulum? For other benefits?

"Benā€™s experience taking Pendulum products while wearing a glucose monitorā€¦59:18

  • Cycles between apple cider vinegar to berberine to bitter melon extract
  • Sees a restoration of his blood glucose levels to normal pre-meal levels within a couple of hours after a meal
    • Generally doesnā€™t see a rise to anything more than 120 post-meal
  • Started taking Pendulum, and stopped taking the above agents, and had similar results
  • When he quit taking Pendulum, his blood glucose would go above 120"
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#23

I know it dampens glucose spikes. Does anyone know if

  • it also dampens average glucose?

  • lowers or a least it neutral on / does not act via insulin up?

  • it does not have any noteworthy negatives on oneā€™s gut, ph or other health / longevity aspects that we car about?

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#24

Acid is bad for the teeth. Donā€™t drink from the bottle.

I put balsamic vinegar on my dinner meal every day. Supposed to be good for reducing absorption of AGEs in food, among other things.

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#25

And balsamic vinegar tastes heavenly. I add it to my lunch (diced fruits and vegetables + protein) almost every day.

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#26

The maintenance cost of Pendulumā€™s product is too high. Once discontinued, blood sugar immediately reverts to its original state. In such a case, it may be more practical to simply use medications like metformin

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#27

How do we know that?

#28

The evidence for lowering average glucose is less strong, but there are indications it does:

ā€œThe most important proxy indicator of long-term blood glucose control is HbA1c. Studies that evaluated the effect of vinegar intake from 8 to 12 weeks showed a reduction in HbA1c by at least 0.14 percentage points. This is despite the fact that one of the studies measured HbA1c earlier than the standard practice of 12 weeks. Extended use of vinegar might have produced greater reductions as suggested by results of short-term outcomes. Despite differences among the studies that measured HbA1c, results were quite consistent (I 2 = 0%)ā€ From Diabetes Control: Is Vinegar a Promising Candidate to Help Achieve Targets? - PMC (nih.gov)

I havnĀ“t noticed it, but vinegar apparently may cause GI distress.
It can damage tooth enamel, so should be diluted in water, or spread on the top of oneĀ“s meal for the first bites. .

1 Like
#29

To my understanding acarbose would be a better medication, given that it may provide other health benefits as well (gut biome improvements). With perhaps vinegar providing an extra boost.

#30

Joseph,

If balsamic vinegar reduces AGEs it certainly merits attention, perhaps you could share if you have any link.

Otherwise, balsamic vinegar comes ahead of apple cider in having more minerals, whereas apple cider has less sugar/carbs and lower glycemi index.

Balsamic vinegar vs. Apple cider vinegar ā€” In-Depth Nutrition Comparison (foodstruct.com)

From another source: 1. Apart from balsamic vinegar, all types of vinegar are low in carbs and keto-friendly. [Apple cider vinegar, in particular, supports keto-adaptation]

Conclusion: Both vinegars have their unique qualities and potential health benefits. While balsamic vinegar is rich and complex, apple cider vinegar may be considered slightly healthier due to its lower calorie content and potential for aiding in weight management and digestion[4]
(Is Balsamic Vinegar Keto-Friendly? | Dr. Berg)3.

2 Likes
#31

Think there seem to be a lot going for that best in class probiotics (like eg Pendulum) seem to be achieving that too. (Better gut lining, more butyrate, digestive health in addition to all the glucose spike modulation and average glucose/HbA1c lowering).

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#32

Havenā€™t listed to it yet, but this seems to have a load of valuable context:

In this episode, Colleen delves into the complexity of the microbiome, how it is tested, and how it changes over time. She explores how probiotics, prebiotics, and postbiotics affect the gut and makes a compelling case that well-developed products have the potential not only to enhance gut health but also to positively influence overall metabolic well-being. Colleen emphasizes the significance of a high-fiber diet in sustaining a thriving gut microbiome, shares insights on minimizing microbiome damage during antibiotic use, provides tips for fostering and preserving a healthy gut, and much more.

More detail with time stamps
ā€¢ Colleenā€™s background and current focus [4:15];
ā€¢ The basics of the microbiome [6:45];
ā€¢ The study of the human microbiome [14:45];
ā€¢ Categories of bacteria, and the implications on health of the rapid evolution of bacteria [19:15];
ā€¢ Methods for measuring and understanding the microbiome, and key indicators of microbiome health [28:00];
ā€¢ The important role of fiber for promoting gut health through the production of butyrate [38:00];
ā€¢ The case for manipulating gut bacteria via fecal microbiota transplant (FMT) [44:30];
ā€¢ Dynamics of the microbiome: the gut-brain connection and how antibiotics, nutrition, stress, and more impact the microbiomeā€™s diversity and function [49:45];
ā€¢ Factors that influence the vaginal microbiome [54:45];
ā€¢ The effect of gut microbes on obesity and challenges with fecal transplants in people [58:15];
ā€¢ Beneficial strains of gut bacteria and strains commonly found in probiotics [1:00:45];
ā€¢ The difference between a probiotic and prebiotic, and how CFUs are a measure of the ā€œactive ingredientā€ [1:09:15];
ā€¢ Considerations about how probiotic strains are produced, and more on the meaning of CFU [1:13:45];
ā€¢ Mitigating the effect of antibiotics on the microbiome [1:22:00];
ā€¢ What do we know about the effect of artificial sweeteners on the gut microbiome? [1:29:30];
ā€¢ Why Akkermansia is a keystone strain with implications for metabolic health and an individualā€™s response to dietary interventions [1:35:45];
ā€¢ The essential steps necessary to develop a robust probiotic for optimal health support [1:45:15];
ā€¢ How Akkermansia helps control blood glucose, and potential implications of Akkermansia in weight loss, diabetes management, and more [1:48:15];
ā€¢ Pendulum Therapeuticsā€™ commitment to rigorous product develop [2:06:00];
ā€¢ Details about the probiotic ā€œGlucose Controlā€ and other probiotics developed by Pendulum Therapeutics [2:12:30];
ā€¢ Further studies of Akkermansia that have been proposed or are underway [2:20:00]; and
ā€¢ More.

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#33

Taking acarbose, I believe Pendulum on top of this would be overkill sice they seem to have similar effects.

#34

Iā€™ve heard that Acar is may be good for microbiome beyond smoothing out the sugars, but donā€™t know in what specific ways that is/is supposed to be the case - do you know the specific ways?

#35

I recall an increase in beneficial short-chain fatty acids. Probably more details in the lengthy thread on acarbose.

1 Like
#36

@Ulf The information on adding vinegar to reduce AGEs came from my podcast with the leaders of the Anti-AGEs Foundation

Hereā€™s the thread in this forum with link to episode.

Here are some papers that are interesting. One is a review of fruit vinegars but not balsamic (grape). It is clear from the papers that cooking with vinegar reduces formation of AGEs. Adding vinegar to already cooked food may not have the same effect (cannot find a source), but is mentioned in the fruit vinegar paper as a way to gain certain phytonutrients that inhibit AGEs absorption.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0925443918303296

4 Likes
#37

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0753332221003802#:~:text=Berberine%20is%20a%20potent%20prebiotic,mucin%20secretion%20in%20host%20intestine.

This paper says to take berberine to boost akkermansia in the gut. I have already been using berberine. My experience with akkermansia has been good. The next question is will the akkermansia stay in my gut after I stop supplementingā€¦which I will do.

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#39

Nearly all probiotics are unlikely to establish a permanent presence in the gut. You can check out reviews of Pendulumā€™s Akk probiotic on Reddit, where many users have reported testing Akk for three months with no detectable changes

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#40

@sml491010 Yes but as a counterpoint, if you look at the rapamycin surveys you see that most people donā€™t notice any benefit from rapamycin. Does it not do anything good? I donā€™t know for certain but I think rapa has helped me in several ways.

Akkermansia has certainly been doing something to me. Weā€™ll see if it is overall good and if it lasts.

I am willing to gamble on good bets. I just try to avoid big risks (big downside: injections, messing with hormones, chronic antibiotics, cancer meds, etc), too many simultaneous bets (10 chemicals a week is my limit), and wasting money for too long on poor bets (no way to tell if it helped) and unnecessary supplements (get in food). And I always use blood and physical biomarkers to monitor what is happening.

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#41

Additional benefits of rhubarb.

Table 2, page 2

Results: The mean systolic blood pressure and diastolic blood pressure in the rhubarb group before and after the intervention were 144.87 Ā± 8.73 and 95.75 Ā± 7.72, respectively, after intervention, to 133.95 Ā± 10.98 and 83.73 Ā± 25.28% decrease. Paired t-test and Wilcoxon showed a significant decrease in systolic and diastolic blood pressure and diastolic blood pressure with rhubarb intervention (p <0.05), but no significant changes were observed in intervention and weight oss control groups (p <0.05).

FBS (fasting blood sugar?) 288 to 226
HBA1C 9 to 7 [page 2, table 2]

Sample population was 80 individuals, randomly assigned to rhubarb versus placebo.
Dosage was 400 mg rhubarb extract 3x/day

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