ng0rge
#122
“Your Akkermansia muciniphila levels should hover between at least 0.5% and at most 5% of your total gut bacteria. In healthy people, scientists typically see bacteria levels at about 4%.”
That’s from a pretty good general public description of Akkermansia here:
https://bodybio.com/blogs/blog/what-is-akkermansia
It also looks like Akkermansia can be boosted in your gut by Bifidobacterium animalis which is found in some yogurts.
" The past two decades of research have raised gut microbiota composition as a contributing factor to the development of obesity, and higher abundance of certain bacterial species has been linked to the lean phenotype, such as Akkermansia muciniphila."
" For instance, oral administration in diet-induced obesity mice of a mixture of 5 × 108 CFU, Lactobacillus rhamnosus LMG S-28148, and Bifidobacterium animalis subsp. lactis LMG P-28149 for 14 weeks significantly increased the abundance of Akk approximately 100-fold in the fecal content. B. animalis, not L. rhamnosus, was the main contributor, and oral Bifidobacterium animalis subsp. Lactis 420 significantly increased Akk abundance."
https://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/24/4/3900
" In summary, this study shows that ingestion of the probiotic Bifidobacterium animalis subsp. lactis CECT 8145, as viable cells and mainly in a heat-killed form, reduces anthropometric adiposity biomarkers in abdominally obese individuals, particularly in women. An increase in gut Akkermansia genus appears as a possible mechanism involved."
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41366-018-0220-0
Here is at least one commercially available yogurt that has Bifobacterium Animalis:
https://www.activia.us.com/frequently-asked-questions/
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Bicep
#123
Trubiotic uses Bifidobacterium animalis, BB-12 I wonder if that’s close enough.
I also recently bought a bottle of lactobacillus Rhamnosus GG. I wonder if that’s close enough. Have not had time to see if I can raise it.
Neo
#124
Are you doing the Thorne test again too? Is your plan to keep going with Pendulum or to stop and see?
Neo
#125
Yes, is does look like they are doing something with the normalization…
In the figure caption they say
Light gray box indicates the y-axis range of proportions observed in samples from subjects randomized to the placebo group.
So the zero level is not zero but the level on the overall potential.
Combined with your comment about that there was 50% detection on the placebo arm…. I’m not sure how to interpret things. Did the supplement take the fraction of people with measurable levels from 50% to 70%?
How much did it increase things for the 50% and for the new 20% / what levels did those 50-70% end up with even after the post end period?
Neo
#126
Is that one similar enough to the one in the studies? It’s not the same right?
ng0rge
#127
Not sure, but not the same.
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I will do Thorne again, too. (Not just to see akk level, I’m trying to improve overall gut condition.)
My thinking is I wlll switch to just the Akk product after three months, as Mr Lavelle seems to be seeing results at that level.
3 Likes
Neo
#129
Resistant starch intake facilitates weight loss in humans by reshaping the gut microbiota
Abstract
Emerging evidence suggests that modulation of gut microbiota by dietary fibre may offer solutions for metabolic disorders. In a randomized placebo-controlled crossover design trial (ChiCTR-TTRCC-13003333) in 37 participants with overweight or obesity, we test whether resistant starch (RS) as a dietary supplement influences obesity-related outcomes. Here, we show that RS supplementation for 8 weeks can help to achieve weight loss (mean −2.8 kg) and improve insulin resistance in individuals with excess body weight.
The benefits of RS are associated with changes in gut microbiota composition*. Supplementation with Bifidobacterium adolescentis, a species that is markedly associated with the alleviation of obesity in the study participants, protects male mice from diet-induced obesity. Mechanistically, the RS-induced changes in the gut microbiota alter the bile acid profile, reduce inflammation by restoring the intestinal barrier and inhibit lipid absorption. We demonstrate that RS can facilitate weight loss at least partially through B. adolescentisand that the gut microbiota is essential for the action of RS.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s42255-024-00988-y
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Here’s a recent Nutrition Made Simple video about a study that disputes the idea the “spikes” are bad. I can’t say I understand the mechanism for this finding but it is clear that the “spikes are bad” thinking is too reductionist.
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Ever since I saw how glucose spikes affect Mitochondria (they essentially break the Mitochondrial Complex into itty bitty pieces), I have been against glucose spikes.
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Bicep
#132
Wow it took a full month to get the test back. Akkermansia was pretty good:
Not optimal, but I at least have some to work with. Also Thorne shows you your SCFA:
which I though were pretty good, though they thought lactate was off some. Other than that I only got a bad score for disbiosis something like what Len got. Maybe we all have some disbiosis. I don’t know what to do, I suppose look through their expensive stuff and try to improve.
5 Likes
Bicep
#134
That was Thorne. You can see them at thorne.com.
It’s a fairly expensive test, like $180 if I remember right.
2 Likes
You can focus on just optimizing fiber intake and leave the rest to God.
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José
#136
Why do people have to bring ideology into science?
Bicep
#138
I understand the strategy. My second daughter who just had her 5th home birth would agree this is the way to go. My tendency is to cheat instead. I can’t help myself this time of year. I use 25 gm psillium in my morning smoothie, add a little alpha cyclodextrin and maybe some inulin later. So I’m using processed ingredients from India.
I much prefer when I can forage in the garden, but the only thing I have now that could help is Jerusalem Artichoke. I can harvest a 5 gallon pail in about 10 minutes effort, but my gut can only take about a couple tablespoons worth per day without revolting. Beans are good, but I’m still trying to be Keto. So I’m stuck with cheating.
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There’s fructooligosaccharides, human milk oligosaccharides, inulin, resistant starch, you name it. I’m saying you can cheat with prebiotic supplements as they’re more logical and much cheaper than just dumping probiotics into the gut. Oh also various poly phenols that it seems as though the critters you want to feed really thrive on: green tea and pomegranate extracts. Or mixed frozen fruits and veggies in a smoothie. Akkermansia also seem to love rhubarb. And Jerusalem Artichoke is real good for the liver. Maybe make a tea out of the surplus that you can chow down.
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I never heard anything about supplementing this in adults. Can you share more color to it?
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L_H
#141
This is my approach too (excluding human milk!), and you can add fasting and anthocyanins to the mix. I can see why someone might be tempted to use a probiotic to guarantee a starter a dose. But surely we’ve learned that prebiotics rule when it comes to long-term sustainable benefits. And most akkermansia boosting foods have multiple other benefits.
Intermittent fasting, Commentary: Intermittent Fasting and Akkermansia Muciniphila Potentiate the Antitumor Efficacy of FOLFOX in Colon Cancer - PMC
Rhubarb https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/19490976.2023.2178796#:~:text=We%20have%20previously%20demonstrated%20that,the%20abundance%20of%20Akkermansia%20muciniphila.
Pomegranates Pomegranate ellagitannins stimulate the growth of Akkermansia muciniphila in vivo - PubMed
**FOS rich foods (**red onions, garlic Jerusalem artichokes, pulses, unripe bananas) Strategies to promote abundance of Akkermansia muciniphila, an emerging probiotics in the gut, evidence from dietary intervention studies - PMC.
Pycnogenol Highlighting the Relevance of Gut Microbiota Manipulation in Inflammatory Bowel Disease - PMC
And if you want a boost there’s always metformin, berberine etc.
It feels like akkermansia probiotics are largely unnecessary?
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