Bryan Johnson stops rapamycin

[JKPrime]

Great advice! While we are on advice giving course, adding to it a bit:
-not smoking anything
-staying away from drugs
-and finding something meaningful to do and accomplish

[RapAdmin]

@AnUser

Why does Kamil want Bryan Johnson to take rapamycin so badly?

He’s a scientist focused on the biology of aging, he reads all the research, and he knows that rapamycin is by far the best, most validated, most likely-effective intervention we have right now. Its not that he cares about Bryan J, its that if someone rejects rapamycin he’s likely mistaken.

See, for example:

https://x.com/Aging_Scientist/status/1853987104633856231

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kamil-pabis-b2066a84/

[AnUser]

I might be correct in only testing apoB then that I used to do before. That was the only thing I tested for 2-3 years.
I want triglycerides low though because of the MR relationship with mood.

So instead of testing everything… find a few biomarkers (or many) YOU like, which you know have MR data, and optimize them.

Doing 50 blood biomarkers you’re going to have false positives and things more likely to move from an intervention in a positive or negative direction, regardless whether it was true or not?

For me:

ApoB
Triglycerides
+
(+ required when for example statin initiation).

I’ll be adding on my own list once I know with mendelian randomization data.

[Thorin]

I think it is very likely that low-dose steroids increase longevity.

I think for women they may work wonders but we have not made it a priority to really dial in the timing (presumably starting at menopause) and dose and particular hormones. So I can’t say with any certainty what a woman should do or take, but I think if we studied it extensively we’d find a set of conditions (age, specific drugs, dosages) that helped.

I think for men they would also help, with the idea that men with very low androgen levels would benefit and men with normal levels would simply remain where they were to start with. (For men with normal starting levels, homeostasis would reduce endogenous production to offset the endogenous addition, resulting in little benefit or harm, perhaps.)

Obviously I am just speculating.

[Steve_Combi]

The other weird thing about his Rapamycin stoppage is that he says he’s been taking it for 5 years, he would have been around 42 then (corrected based on RapAdmin info). Listed Rapa as an intervention since 2022 (corrected as per RA)

I don’t think he connected with Dr Zolman before 2020, 4 years ago, when Oliver was 25?, he graduated in 2019 from Kings College London School of Medicine. I’d have to look back at my emails with Oliver from that time.

[RapAdmin]

@Steve_Combi

Since he only came out of the RAPA closet in the past year or so, who was helping him with this before?

No - he was listing rapamycin on his list back in 2022 (if not earlier), and his birthday is August 1977. See this thread: Impressive Biological Age Reductions with Rapamycin (anecdotal) - #21 by AlexKChen

[Terri]

For some of us, time is of the essence. It’s worth the risk/reward lotto.

[Paul]

His caloric restriction could be more to blame than the rapamycin IMO, not to mention his veganism.
Probably activated both Tor complexes which Blagosklonny warned against. Always been skeptical of extreme diets.
His extreme skin routines probably also irritate his face making him prone to infections.
Compare him to Dave Pascoe who does not calorie restrict and eats meat and has a better Dunnedpace rating and IMO looks younger and healthier

[Dr.Bart]

Well sure let’s add the calorie and protein restriction to the melting pot of confounding factors, including over 100 supplements, blood transfusions, and whatever else he does.

[adriank]

Paid by some pharma giant… Lol. Rapamycin can’t be patented. Just like Bryan Johnson can’t make money from it. My side effects have almost all disappeared after 6 months or so. Nothing serious like the ones he mentioned. Maybe he lacks meat in his diet… Lol

[Jonas]

How do I know my immnue system is not overly suppressed by rapamycin?
One of things I watch is my NRL ratio of Neutrophils/Lymphocytes. Normal range is 0.78 to 3.5, I think. Doctors? @DrFraser

[RapMet]

Wonder if you have any noticeable benefits though? I ask because I did about over a year, and I did NOT have any benefits that I could attribute to RAPA. I could name over 10 other supplemented where I could specifically attribute benefits to, but not Rapa, as such been doing it only once per couple months or so. I also wonder if the weekly high dose might be wrong way to go.
Maybe it is better to do couple mg’s twice per week?

Is anybody doing smaller doses but more frequently and what is your experience if doing it that way?

[adriank]

I took rapamycin to reduce my joint pains. All the pains on my fingers and shoulders are gone. My psoriasis is almost gone. Do I feel better… hmmmmmm probably not until I lose more weight lol.

I have been on rapamycin since Feb 2024. Initially on a weekly dose… it probably took me 3 months to get the right amount… but did not help since I got the worse brand (Siroboon). I was having 20mg rapamycin with GFJ (+my routine) which gave me a 24 hour blood test of 40ng/mL… and I took that probably for a good 2 months… now with the new Zydus rapamycin, I am reducing the dose to 4mg a fortnight. I will have the blood test results later in the week which I am confident it will not be too high. 2 weeks ago I took 8mg and go a result of 13ng/mL after 3.5 days which is very high.

[John_Hemming]

@World_Traveler

Everyone knows that the older you are the more disfuctional your mitocondria becomes so even a short period of time of not inhibiting Tor could lead to cancer.

I think this is mechanistically wrong in that inhibiting mTOR can improve mitochondrial quality, but if mTOR functions normally there is no particular damage caused to mitochondria.

[DrFraser]

My average longevity patient has a total WBC count of about 3K, which is great, irrespective of whether on rapamycin. I like to see lymphocytes higher than neutrophils as this does correlate with better health outcomes. Most of my patients have <60% Neutrophils, but only a few have <50% in regard to the ratio with Lymphocytes.

In regard to the original question, how do I know my immune system isn’t suppressed - check a blood level, my experience is 70% of the time with level <3 ng/mL I’ve not seen any complications - and it isn’t immunosuppression, it is modulation. T cell immunity improves, which is great, as this recognizes malignancies and avoids death/disability from viral illnesses. It will suppress humoral immunity while >3 ng/mL or so, and yes, be vigilent and if one has something that could be a bacterial infection, treat it early.

[World_Traveler]

Does not have to improve it. Only help inhibit cells from turning to cancer. It is strongly believed in literature that Tor inhibition helps delay cancer.

[John_Hemming]

That may be relevant in terms of cell division.

[Jonas]

@DrFraser

My average longevity patient has a total WBC count of about 3K, which is great, irrespective of whether on rapamycin. I like to see lymphocytes higher than neutrophils as this does correlate with better health outcomes. Most of my patients have <60% Neutrophils, but only a few have <50% in regard to the ratio with Lymphocytes.

In regard to the original question, how do I know my immune system isn’t suppressed - check a blood level, my experience is 70% of the time with level <3 ng/mL I’ve not seen any complications - and it isn’t immunosuppression, it is modulation. T cell immunity improves, which is great, as this recognizes malignancies and avoids death/disability from viral illnesses. It will suppress humoral immunity while >3 ng/mL or so, and yes, be vigilent and if one has something that could be a bacterial infection, treat it early.

" how do I know my immune system isn’t suppressed": what ratio of NLR is better then given the preferred lab range is 0.78 - 3.5 per internet?

Per Gork:

• Rapamycin primarily suppresses lymphocyte activity, particularly T cells, by inhibiting their proliferation and function through the mTOR pathway. This effect can be seen as modulation in lower doses, where it might enhance certain aspects of immune memory while reducing overall T cell expansion during immune activation.

• Neutrophil function is not directly targeted by rapamycin to the same extent, though it might influence neutrophil behavior indirectly through changes in the immune milieu or cytokine environment.

[LaraPo]

@DrFraser

. I like to see lymphocytes higher than neutrophils as this does correlate with better health outcomes

Got confused here. My understanding was that in a healthy person neutrophils count is higher than lymphocyte count (to have a healthy NLR under3). My NLR is 2. Am I wrong?

[LaraPo]

My NLR (15 years on Rapa) is 2, which is healthy. My WBC are usually 3.9.