#21

I updated my original post with some citations : Mainstream medical care does not admit to Artherosclerosis reversal because it is hard to achieve. WWII studies of many victims of starvation found them with no Artherosclerosis, even though it was common in Europe at the time : the presumption is that extreme fasting reverses Artherosclerosis, but no doctor can recommend that as a treatment!
Ask the doctor: Is it possible to reverse coronary artery disease? - Harvard Health

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#22

Is it related to fasting itself or to CR to very low levels of body fat?

#23

Whatā€™s the source paper for this claim?

What is your CAC after your protocol, and what does your CT angiogram say?

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#24

That is not what the cited paper says.

Neither does this other citation say this.

#25

Here is the cite for Artherosclerosis reversal from starvation Ask the doctor: Is it possible to reverse coronary artery disease? - Harvard Health.

I never did the full dosage protocols for Natto + Serrapeptase + Lumbrokinase, because my CAC = 1 (almost no calcified plaque) and CIMT = 0.726mm (basically no plaque in Carotid artery). Will retest yearly and next year will include an MRA (MRI angiogram is just slightly more expensive than CT angiogram, around $600 without insurance in San Diego, and comes without the added cancer risk of radiation).

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#26

Those are exact quotes from the same citation : recheck the link you followed.

#27

Those quotes in the paper you linked does not say atherosclerosis is reversed in the papers they cite.

That isnā€™t the primary source paper.

#28

That LDL seems rather low. Man cannot live without cholesterol. It is the LDL particle numbers and size that are important. Both the brain and the liver produce cholesterol. That plaque results when something happens to an artery and calcium and cholesterol rush in to patch it up. Often caused by some traumaā€¦like maybe big insulin spikes. Metabolic health may be a far better indicator of overall health. Most of us are insulin resistant and that is a big problem. Do some research.

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#29

I donā€™t think you need to worry about low cholesterol. See the AHA article below.

http://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.123.064041

Nevertheless, the reassuring findings on the safety of longer-term very low achieved LDL-C levels from the FOURIER-OLE study corroborate other supportive lines of evidence. In the IMPROVE-IT trial 6-year follow-up results, individuals achieving LDL-C <30 mg/dL had the lowest cardiovascular event rates without increased safety events compared with those with higher LDL-C.13 Ecologically, newborns have LDL-C levels in the 20ā€“40 mg/dL range, suggesting that higher levels seen in adults are not essential for cellular processes. Furthermore, human genetic studies have identified individuals with variants resulting in markedly low LDL-C levels (<20 mg/dL) with no discernable adverse physiological consequences.

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#30

OK you are saying the article I linked has cites that donā€™t back up the claims ? I am not sure I agree, though it is true that neither the article NOR its cites make any specific claim about amount of plaque reduction, so it does NOT support my original claim of a 30% annual plaque reduction from lowering LDL to 50. I did find and link another article that claims a 24% cumulative reduction (over multiple years) from keeping LDL at 60mg/dL, and corrected my original claim to refer to a total (cumulative) 30% plaque reduction. This is nowhere near the annual 30% plaque reduction achievable with Nattokinase OR 50% annual plaque reduction achievable with Lumbrokinase, though those numbers are based on much smaller studies and we donā€™t know if those reductions are repeatable year after year to eliminate all plaque.

#31

The statements below are totally made up by the article you posted, they are complete lies, or rather most likely the author believes that improvements in angina or outcomes implies plaque reversal.

I have not looked at the other claims.

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#33

I noticed you are taking colchicine @Beth. Do you know which of your inflammatory markers were elevated and what impact the colchicine has had on them? Or can you tell because of other interventions that also lower inflammatory markers?

#34

Hi,
I would have to look at my bloodwork to see if we looked at inflammation since I went on it. I guess that would be C-reactive protein, right? I donā€™t think it was elevated when I started but I will check for you later today to see if itā€™s gone down. (I did have high CRP many years ago).

I started taking last summer, right after approval, strictly due to my elevated CVD risk and for no other reason (CAC of almost 500 ages ago).

#35

There are a half dozen common inflammatory markers, including CRP, serum amyloid A, fibrinogen and procalcitonin, and cytokines, predominantly TNFĪ±, interleukins 1Ī², 6, 8, 10 and 12. If they cannot otherwise be reduced, colchicine can be indicated for ASCVD because it dampens inflammatory markers on neutrophils so that they are less likely to be attracted to inflamed or injured endothelium. Given that it has downsides, it is likely that you had a good inflammatory workup before it was prescribed.

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#36

All human cells produce their own cholesterol, so LDL-C can be arbitrarily low assuming you are not literally starving.

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#37

I definitely didnā€™t :slight_smile:
It went like this:
I saw the write up from Attia that it might reduce CVD risk up to 25%
I emailed my cardiologist and internist and they both said, great idea, here ya go.

I did just go through my blood work and unless those other tests (non CRP) have a different name, Iā€™ve not been tested for those.

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#38

I donā€™t know how to test for those others either, but my doc checks LP PLA2 once a year. My last 2 values were 113 and 109. Something about inflammation in the arteries.

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#39

Right now it looks like LP PLA2 and Apo(b) are the dynamic duo in predicting and gauging progressing reducing the risk of ASCVD. LP PLA2 seems to have the edge in stroke prediction while Apo(b) might be better for cardio. I now manage this area of health exclusively by these two tests and pretty much ignore the lipo panels that come with an annual screening panel I run (Life Extension Elite Male).

#40

Thanks. If your cardiologist and internist gave you the go-ahead, Iā€™m sure they had a good rationale. I have contemplated taking it but have been able to get my inflammation levels very low by other means. This 2023 review on colchicine covers the full range of issues on it.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9754312/

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#41

Thanks for all that, Rob!

Have you had a concerning CAC or other known source of CVD risk? Or just inflammation that you have been able to reduce (great job!.. and curious what you did?)

Yeah, I have known risk (family history and HIGH CAC score at a young age), which is why they both felt this drug would be well suited for me. I donā€™t take it on the day I take my weekly rapamycin (based on something I read here), but other than that, Iā€™m just banking on the risk of this drug being much lower than my risk of CVD.

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