#11

BTW, one of the everyday foods, I forgot to mention our mushrooms.

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#12

Ha ha, not really, but I did read a couple books by Steve Gundry and learned about lectins. Then I read a book by Lustgarten and now I’m constantly worried about my microbial burden. It turns out some of the worst lectins weaken the junctions in the gut. I think I figured out something about that recently.

So an article previously published here told about how Lutein and Zeazanthin are hard to absorb. They did an experiment where half got the supplement, and half got the same amount in Goji berries. The L and Z were found in the blood of the Goji Berries, not in the blood of the supplemented people. I actually got a free Goji from a nursery and planted it I was so impressed by the study. It’s a weed:

berry
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Seriously it was a short stick with a couple leaves, mailed in soggy napkin less than a year ago.

Then I started reading about the Goji and discovered some people call it a super fruit, but Gundry says it has a lectin that weakens your gut junctions. This makes sense because that’s why Lutein and Zeaxanthin can be absorbed better from the fruit than the supplement. There are drug companies that use wheat aglutenins with their drugs to help them to be absorbed because a healthy gut won’t let them through. So this is a real thing, and while the drugs and supplements are getting through so are microbes from your gut.

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#13

What I find particularly irritating is the so-called experts are discouraging people from trying strategic caloric restriction. They say that a third of people fail. They say that it is dangerous. They say it’s going to make you angry in other words, hungry and angry. I have found the exact opposite. When one looks at food like medicine and eats those things that he knows his body can assimilate effectively and eliminate effectively his body will respond.

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#14

Caloric restriction is the most well validated longevity approach in animals, no question. I think the monkey studies were a little less compelling, but there is little doubt it helps in healthy longevity.

And especially when we are talking about CRON (cr with optimal nutrition), it’s fine.

I tried CRON for a year, here in the silicon valley when the trend first started. One of the CR mailing list members wife started a small business selling the premade meals from Walford’s book and for approximately six months I was eating about 30 percent fewer calories. I lost a lot of weight, had to wear a sweater even in the summer, and was constantly hungry. There are definitely some negative side effects.

I think the reason people/ researchers have given it up is it’s really hard, and likely appeals to a very small portion of the population in the USA.

I now take rapamycin, I have no noticeable side effects and it costs only $10/week.

People can still do CR, and it’s not a terrible idea, it’s just that rapamycin and other small molecules are a lot easier.

And people should probably still do at least some CR, to stay relatively lean.

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#15

Would you have the same side effects at a lower deficit?

#16

I don’t know if it’s my age or the supplements that I take, but I practice a moderate calorie-restricted diet based on a calorie calculator that looks at weight, activity, etc.,
and I am never hungry. My current BMI is ~22.

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#17

Is there any other measurement which you can use to know whether you are in CR that is more reliable?

#18

I’d look at 4 things:
#1 You should have weight loss if in CR as a long trend, until at a steady state, at a body weight that is likely less than ideal (e.g. you are likely to live longer, but be a bit miserable)
#2 Get an initial whole body composition DEXA and repeat it in a few months, %body fat and visceral fat would be confirmatory.
#3 Adiponectin will typically increase with CR
#4 Leptin levels will decrease with CR

I’d however think the proof of CR is a body weight/composition that is significantly less than starting point, as it would be difficult to have CR that was effective without having these changes.

The other way is simply understanding your BMR (you can have this measured) and look at activity, and see where calories are now, and knock off whatever % and measure everything.

It would seem a miserable existence to me … I like my food! I’m happier mimicking it with Rapamycin … and I’ll take what I get from that.

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#19

@DrFraser I get the feeling that you are discussing classic, “full blown”, 25-30% CR? I agree with you on huger, psychological cost, etc for that.

What are your thoughts on mild CR though? Perhaps of a similar magnitude to what people actually ended up doing in the Yale run, NIH funded human clinical trial with results published in multiple Nature journals?

That seems to be similar to the degree of CR that is part of Bryan Johnson’s and Mike Lustgarten’s diets and neither of them seem to be under muscled.

See for example the papers on this chain:

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#20

I guess the issue is whether your believe prospectively that these changes in “Epigenetic/Biological Age” will actually be predictive of real outcomes.
For example, if these changes are real - then if they go back to eating their usual diet - I’d bet the changes in age will reverse … and there will be no gain? So does the change in age require the same behavior ongoing for the remainder of one’s life to sustain the benefit?
There is a lot of unclear detail here. My concern is, that any short term intervention (and we’ve seen many) that can suddenly improve one’s Epigenetic age is unlikely to be real, which calls into question how to interpret those.
So I’d guess the 2 years will improve rate of aging during those 2 years, yielding some days or maybe a month or two additional life.
I’m happier taking my Rapa … albeit, I used to weigh a fair bit more and knocked off a lot of weight 2 years ago, so I guess I’m relatively on CR now as compared to when I had another 30 kgs on me …

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#21

@DrFraser Agree that the aging clocks are still early. Was not anchoring to that specific result, but more around the overall health benefits they found in the Yale clinical trial (documented in several of the other papers).

Also def not saying it is CR vs rapa/molecules. It does not at all have to be an “or” but can be an “and”. Actually think some of the longevity molecules, eg Acarbose and SGLTi’s, can help achieve some amounts of CR with less difficulty.

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#22

There is an error here as this is not CR for longevity as I understand it.

CR is reducing calorie intake so metabolic rate, calorie output or burn decreases so weight loss does not happen. Otherwise you would starve to death as you keep rebalancing the CR for the new weight.

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#23

I was talking about the transition from doing whatever one is doing now to having CR comparatively.
If you simply want to do an estimated calories based on IBW for a sensible body composition based on gender and height there are formulas for that - but also would need to modify for activity.
Measuring the effects, I’d favor DEXA, but you can increase body fat % if you primarily lose muscle and vice versa.

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#24

I was wondering about markers of being in this CR longevity state where metabolic rate slows down. Body temperature could be one of those.

#25

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3117452/
This one above shows decreased temperature.

The one below shows no consistent effect with BP or HR despite literature contrary suggesting on average both should go down.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29518898/

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#26

FWIW: Several temperature readings were taken at my primary providers office and two at my dermatologist’s office (testing for Covid) in the last 18 months. They ranged from 97 to 97.6 degrees f.
That is a little below statistical averages, so if that is evidence of CR, maybe my calculations were correct.

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#27

Practicing a caloric restriction, but nutrient dense diet provided amazing results. After eight months, I started taking rapamycin and was quite impressed in the amount of energy, clarity and overall sense of well-being. I experienced only 10 weeks.
Bear in mind I am 69 years old having had double aortic valve replacements, two bouts of bacterial endocarditis requiring 12 weeks of antibiotic therapy twice. I have been in and out of the hospital over the last several years and in hospice twice. Practicing caloric restriction with intermittent fasting definitely improved my overall health, although I was still fighting, a chronic undiagnosed malady no doctor has described it as bacterial, viral or auto immune. Either way it seems that Rapp myosin is targeting this malady or it has improved my immune system enough that I can actually feel it targeting this unknown disease. I definitely believe my immune system And circulatory system have improved, even though I was physically active before.
I recommend anyone who is considering taking this medication to find a reputable telemedicine company. If they don’t request a blood test before prescribing this medication, I would not be too convinced of their credibility. I stumbled onto Ageless RX and the first thing they did after I paid my hundred dollars was to arrange an appointment for a blood test Close to my house. I expected to pay an additional charge, but it appears Ageless RX incorporates the cost of the blood test and the medication at $100 a month. That combined with their excellent customer service has made me a lifetime customer.

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#28

Valter Longo promotes fasting on his website so I don’t really know what you mean.

#29

I tried CRON for a year, here in the silicon valley when the trend first started. One of the CR mailing list members wife started a small business selling the premade meals from Walford’s book and for approximately six months I was eating about 30 percent fewer calories. I lost a lot of weight, had to wear a sweater even in the summer, and was constantly hungry. There are definitely some negative side effects.

I think the reason people/ researchers have given it up is it’s really hard, and likely appeals to a very small portion of the population in the USA.

By the way, -30% is probably way too much, Crers in the CR society forum, before it shut down, were discussing about t a -10 or 15% optimum, harder CR maybe causing excessive frailty, impairment of immune system, glucose intolerance.
My point about CR is that it may not be suited to everyone. CR is undoubtedly very good for overweight people who want to lose progressively weight, whereas some other people have problems not losing weight.
Like myself. And I hate to look too frail or slim, having a preference for a muscular phenotype.

By the way, Valter Longo, the eminent gerontologist, is against CR, whereas Luigi Fontana, another eminent gerontologist, is very much in favor of it. Go figure!

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#30

A good strategy if heat waves become worse if CR makes one feel colder than average.

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