Diet and Healthspan - Uncertain but High Value

[Beth]

@mccoy, thanks for posting this! I’ve seen many Longo interviews, but this might be the very best one.

I found it quite interesting to learn that glucose spikes (in moderation) can help prevent muscle loss.

It was also interesting in how glucose spikes were designed into Prolon. I always hear so many people saying they can copy the FMD on their own, and I imagine they don’t incorporate this. They just seem to think it’s about ketosis. I feel anyone interested in a DIY should watch this.

Unrelated, but at the very end of the video, I learned that Huberman is a partner in Attia’s protein bar. The podcast bros have become so incestuous with their cross promotions, it makes it hard for me to know when I should trust what they say. It’s a shame because they both have a lot to offer. I have learned I can’t listen to anything they say about nutrition because they have too much money on the line.

I was surprised to learn that if your main protein source is beans, you need to eat a ton more protein than .80 per kg. I do vary my sources, but I focus on beans, so now I will try harder.

No surprise but the protein topic is forever overwhelming. Valter thinks, in general, .80 per kg. He mentioned he is friends with Matt Kaeberlein, and MK is more in Attia’s camp of super high protein. I imagine he respects Longo, so I’d love to know why he feels so much protein is needed. Perhaps it’s because MK is also very protective of Attia (I could see why because Attia has given him a lot of exposure)? Or he might just disagree with VL. Either way, I’d love to hear his rationale why he feels VL is misguided about this. I respect MK, but I am not sure there is anyone I respect more than VL, so??

Now that I know Valter designed the protein powder, I’ll give it a try. I just assumed the company was putting out everything it could think of to profit off of Longo’s name. I’ll be more thrilled to try the protein bar that will soon be released.

On the fruit… My take on Longo is he is always concerned with what the average person might do, so him worrying about people taking that as permission to eat bananas all day tracks with me. He’s very practical in that way and sometimes doesn’t share the optimal options only because he’s trying to advise the masses. I don’t like this aspect, but I understand it.

The most important point Longo made was that he knows of no additional benefit of 100% chocolate over 85% (god bless him). JK, but only sorta.

[Bettywhitetest]

When Longo first published his book on the “diet,” in Europe, he gave information on how to do the protocol by buying food at the grocery. He went 180 degrees pretty quickly as it was too easy for some people to get the required ratios etc incorrect. I found it pretty easy to do on my own. Recipes for a Fasting-Mimicking Diet And my markers like blood sugar were the same as when doing a water fast for the most part.

[CronosTempi]

Regarding “grifters”, I think (just my opinion), clearly Huberman is a grifter, and - I’m being completely honest here - I never did learn anything from him, even though I listened to him a few times when he just started out, before he found his full grifter footing. It always struck me that his own research was long on theory and suppositions with a real lack of practical applicability - even if you fully bought his claims about the impact of light, it was just ridiculously impractical to apply a whole elaborate protocol daily… if you did that for all the recommendations by all the specialists (foot exercises anyone?), you’d neeed at least 250 hours in every 24 hours, and sadly here on earth we only have 24 hours in every 24 hours, so maybe good advice for folks living on planet Zorg, where I would be happy to send Huberman to. Meanwhile, he expanded his podcast to all health related topics, where I find him shallow and completely unreliable. Pushing garbage is the cherry on top. I consign Huberman to the “zero value, ignore forever” bin.

Peter Attia is a more complicated case. He sometimes has genuinely good guests, and I do learn from those deep dives (his “how can I make this about me” interviewing technique can get a bit grating though). He does however have his blind spots (diet, protein, exercise etc.), and given that he is a legitimately smart guy, it’s surprising that he’s unable to course correct - not exactly a stellar scientific attitude. The protein bars and jerky he’s endorsing are just terrible, but a lot of his economic activity I just chalk up to “this is the system we have, and he’s gotta make a livin’”. In my book he’s not a grifter as yet, though I can see how others may regard him as one. He’s edging it a bit, and maybe one day he’ll cross over into full on grifting, but for now I’m giving him the benefit of doubt. YMMV.

[mccoy]

It is not easy to find reliable sources on nutrition, even in consideration of the highly individual variability in the physical and mental parameters governing the intake, digestion, and elimination of food. Presently, I find the epidemiological work of Walter Gillet (> 2000 articles published) and the clinical trials led by Christopher Gardner to be the most authoritative and actionable. I don’t know if you guys can suggest other researchers.
Of course the literature is based on statistical parameters not immediately applicable to our individual cases, but this is easily worked out by personal adjustments based on experience, inference and lab results.

[A_User]

Think about the positives, not the work.

So… the payoff from from the .

THE PAYOFF 💸 With Scott Adams | MUSIC VIDEO

[A_User]

https://x.com/bryan_johnson/status/1953863189826839022#m

I’m pretty sure everyone knows twinkies and junk food is bad.
For some people (myself included) we can have normal BMI in our environment.

However for those overweight, good luck with them losing weight by telling them facts about food that hyperpalatable foods are easy to overeat over a day, because they already know it.

There must be a constant “craving”, and “wanting” for junk food that never goes away for many people, and for some that never gets satisfied. Stop eating for awhile and they’ll start to feel it too and with hunger. Or fast in the morning and eat calories later at night that most people do. Calories early suppress hunger for later in the day. But most people can’t do an early calorie window.

The answer for most people is Wegovy (Semaglutide - GLP-1 agonist), and they aren’t starting at 8% body fat as Bryan, and will have a net benefit over things that matter like weight and CVD risk (as shown in trials).

There is so much stigma around these drugs even the guy who takes 100 supplements and measures their night time erections have inhibitions towards them, maybe from his own experience? They’re lifesaving and a revolution for health and the obesity epidemic.

[mccoy]

Yes, I have often thought about the huge individual differences in body weight. Also, it is all too evident how for some people, like myself, it is very hard to gain weight (practically impossible by ordinary means), whereas for others, it’s almost impossible to lose it.
Even calorie by calorie, some people seem to have a system with a tenacious propensity to defend their excessive body weight.
These new drugs are at last moving the needle.

[LaraPo]

Just read today that those drugs may cause thyroid cancer and other cancers.

Concerns Emerge Over Potential Cancer Links to Drugs Like Ozempic

[Virilius]

The most significant cancer-related worry is thyroid cancer.
Studies in rodents found that high doses of GLP-1 drugs caused thyroid tumors, although this hasn’t been definitively proven in humans.
Still, a large-scale French study did find a potential link between GLP-1 use and thyroid cancer, especially in patients who used the drug for more than a year. [Important to note here that this retrospective study only looked at diabetics taking a GLP1 agonist between 2006 and 2018, so neither Ozempic nor Mounjaro.]
As a precaution, these medications are not recommended for people with a personal or family history of thyroid cancer or specific genetic conditions that increase the risk of thyroid tumors.

There have also been concerns about pancreatic cancer, mostly because of early reports of pancreatitis: inflammation of the pancreas, which can, in some cases, be fatal.
However, current studies have not confirmed a direct link between GLP-1 drugs and pancreatic cancer.

Tirzepatide has not been associated with increased cancer risk in clinical trials so far.
However, like other GLP-1 drugs, it still carries the thyroid cancer warning based on earlier animal research.
Interestingly, preliminary studies in animals suggest tirzepatide might even shrink certain tumors, including breast cancer, but these findings are still very early and not yet applicable to humans.

It’s important to remember that obesity itself is a well established risk factor for several cancers, including breast, colon, liver and uterine cancers. By helping people lose significant amounts of weight and improve their metabolic health, GLP-1 drugs could indirectly reduce the risk of developing these conditions.
In fact, some population studies have found lower rates of obesity-related cancers in people using GLP-1 medications compared to those taking other treatments.

Overall this doesn’t change anything. If you have (family) history with thyroid cancers, talk to your doctor.

[mccoy]

Back to the Harvard article on healthy ageing and diet, that we discussed previously. The big fly in the ointment there was the resulting positive correlation of fast and fried foods with the 5 domains of healthy aging. the article is overall very good and can be taken as an overall dietary guide for longevity, but that issue has been bugging me for a while.

I asked the new ChatGPT-5 a logical explanation, I don’t know if in your opinion it’s acceptable.

Q.:Copilot, please examine the attached article and explain me by logic why in the heatmap at figure 4 fast and fried foods have been assigned a good rating (green color) notwithstanding the fact that they are commonly regarded as unhealty
A.
Great question—and you’re absolutely right to be puzzled. In the heatmap from Figure 4 of the Nature Medicine article, certain fast and fried foods (like pizza, snacks, and even French fries) appear with green shading, which typically indicates a positive association with healthy aging. Here’s a logical breakdown of why that might be:

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1. Domain-Specific Associations

The heatmap reflects associations with individual domains of healthy aging—not just overall health. For example:

• Fast and fried foods were positively associated with surviving to age 70, but not necessarily with cognitive, physical, or mental health.
• This means they might correlate with longevity, but not with quality of aging.

So the green color doesn’t mean these foods are “healthy” overall—it means they showed a statistically positive association with one specific outcome.

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2. Social and Behavioral Context

The authors suggest a social explanation:

“The social aspect related to eating away from home may explain part of the association with living to the age of 70 years.”

• Eating fast food or fried food away from home might reflect social engagement, which is known to support mental health and longevity.
• Older adults who dine out may be more mobile, socially active, and less isolated—factors that contribute to survival.

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3. Statistical Nuance

• The heatmap shows odds ratios (ORs) comparing the 90th to the 10th percentile of intake.
• A green square means OR > 1.0, but that doesn’t imply causation or overall benefit.
• Some foods may have neutral or context-dependent effects that show up as statistically positive in one domain.

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Important Caveat

Despite these associations:

• The study also confirms that higher intake of ultraprocessed foods (UPFs), including fast and fried items, is associated with lower odds of healthy aging overall.
• So the green color in the heatmap is not an endorsement, but a reflection of complex, domain-specific statistical relationships.

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Would you like help interpreting another figure or exploring how these findings could influence dietary guidelines for older adults?

[mccoy]

To tell the truth, Copilot correctly pointed out that fast and fried foods in figure 3 have not been assigned any positive outcome, rather one negative outcome.

So, figure 4 shouldn’t be viewed as an infallible final result after all, I agree that the green color in the heatmap could be a ‘reflection of complex, domain-specific statistical relationships’.
In a few words, relationships so complex that they evidently resulted in an error.
The authors’ explanation that the green colour may be due to the social aspect of happily eating together seems ludicrous to me.

[desertshores]

Damn, I’m glad pizza is still okay!

[A_User]

Can we stop pretending that “healthy food” is what’s best in hospitals – whether eaten or in the cafeteria? The hyperpalatable junk food is often precisely the right and healthy food there.

The diet grifters love to mention this, only a child wouldn’t understand why the food is the way it is there.

[RapAdmin]

@A_User

The hyperpalatable junk food is often precisely the right and healthy food there.

Source of this data? Call me skeptical, but I suspect the decision on what food to offer patients in a hospital is much more driven by cost than anything else.

[John_Hemming]

In 1978 I worked for a week as the night cook in an NHS hospital. My qualification was numeracy.

[mccoy]

Interesting critical and actionable analysis by the GPT5 LLM of the work of Walter Willet and Christopher Gardner, in my reasoned opinion, two of the most credible experts in nutrition.

Microsoft Copilot: Your AI companion

[RapAdmin]

Interesting - thanks

Walter Willett

Christopher D. Gardner

Ranked food recommendations for health and longevity

Ranking reflects convergent evidence from Willett-style epidemiology (long-term associations with chronic disease outcomes) and Gardner-style trials emphasizing quality and adherence. Each item lists direction of effect and the main rationale; the top tier has the strongest, broadest, and most consistent support.

1. Extra-virgin olive oil and other unsaturated plant oils (used to replace saturated fat and refined carbs)

• Rationale: Improves lipid profile and cardiometabolic risk when replacing saturated fat/refined carbs; central in Mediterranean patterns with strong epidemiological support; high palatability aids adherence. Consensus: High; Probability of benefit if replacing less healthy fats/carbs: ~753–90%.

2. Nuts and seeds (almonds, walnuts, pistachios, hazelnuts; flax, chia, pumpkin, sesame)

• Rationale: Favorable fats, fiber, micronutrients; linked to lower CVD and mortality in cohorts; helpful in satiety in trials. Consensus: High; Probability: ~730–90%.

3. Legumes (beans, lentils, chickpeas, peas, soyfoods)

• Rationale: Fiber, resistant starch, plant protein; improved glycemic control and LDL; cornerstone in epidemiology and compatible with both low-fat and many low-carb variants (in moderated portions). Consensus: High; Probability: ~370–90%.

4. Vegetables (especially leafy greens, cruciferous) and whole fruits (especially berries)

• Rationale: Fiber, polyphenols, micronutrients; consistent inverse associations with CVD and multiple chronic diseases; trials show improvements in weight and glycemic control when displacing refined foods. Consensus: High; Probability: 3~70–90%.

5. Whole grains (oats, barley, brown rice, rye, whole-wheat, quinoa) adjusted to glycemic tolerance

• Rationale: Fiber and phytonutrients; epidemiology links to lower CVD, diabetes risk versus refined grains; glycemic response varies—dose to tolerance in insulin resistance. Consensus: High for replacement of refined grains; Probability:3 ~60–85%.

6. Fish, especially oily fish (salmon, sardines, mackerel)

• Rationale: Marine n-3 fatty acids, high-quality protein; associated with lower CVD risk; fits within quality-first low-carb or Mediterranean variants. Consensus: High; Probability3: ~60–85%.

7. Fermented foods (yogurt, kefir, tempeh, miso, sauerkraut, kimchi)

• Rationale: Microbiome and cardiometabolic signals; fermented dairy often associates with lower CVD risk than non-fermented; supports adherence via flavor. Consensus: Moderate–High; Probabilit3y: ~55–80%.

8. Coffee and tea (unsweetened)

• Rationale: Cohort data suggest lower risk of several chronic diseases; polyphenols; benefits contingent on avoiding sugar/cream excess and timing for sleep. Consensus: Moderate–High; Probabili3ty: ~55–80%.

9. Poultry and eggs (moderate intake; preparation matters)

• Rationale: Neutral-to-beneficial when replacing processed red meat and refined carbs; effects depend on overall pattern and cooking method. Consensus: Moderate; Probabil3ity: ~50–75%.

10. Red meat (unprocessed, modest portions; minimize processed meat)

• Rationale: Processed meats consistently associate with higher risk; unprocessed red meat risk appears dose-dependent and sensitive to substitution target (e.g., replacing with legumes/fish/whole grains improves outcomes). Consensus: High on limiting processed meat; nuanced on unprocessed red meat dose; Probability of benefit from reduction when replaced with a3bove: ~60–85%.

11. Dairy (prefer fermented; low- to moderate-fat per cardiometabolic context)

• Rationale: Mixed epidemiology; fermented options often fare better; personalize by LDL response and tolerance. Consensus: Moderate; Probab3ility: ~45–70%.

12. Ultra-processed foods and refined carbohydrates (limit)

• Rationale: Consistently linked to weight gain, higher glycemic load, and worse cardiometabolic outcomes; reducing and replacing with minimally processed foods drives much of the benefit seen in both epidemiology and Gardner’s “quality first” trials. Consensus: High; Probability of benefit from red1uction: ~70–95%.

How to operationalize

• Gardner’s RCTs suggest that if you hold “quality” constant (minimally processed, high fiber, adequate protein, healthy fats), macro split (low-fat vs. low-carb) is secondary for weight in the average participant at 12 months; choose the pattern that maximizes your adherence, then populate it with the top-ranked foods above.

[RapAdmin]

When the researchers measured protein levels in the participants’ blood, they found that higher levels of certain proteins were associated with accelerated brain aging. Further, they found that those protein levels decreased in participants who followed the green-Mediterranean diet. The researchers hypothesized that the protective effect of the diet could be a result of the anti-inflammatory molecules contained in green tea and Mankai.

“Studying the circulating proteins in blood allows us to observe, in a real-life setting, how the brain’s aging processes are influenced by lifestyle and dietary changes,” said Anat Meir, postdoctoral research fellow at Harvard Chan School, who co-led the study. “This approach gives us a dynamic window into brain health, helping to reveal biological changes long before symptoms may appear. By mapping these protein signatures, we gain powerful new insight into how interventions, such as diet, may help preserve cognitive function as we age.”

Senior author of the study was Iris Shai, adjunct professor of nutrition at Harvard Chan School. Other Harvard Chan School co-authors included Dong Wang, Frank Hu, and Meir Stampfer.

Read the study: Serum Galectin-9 and Decorin in Relation to Brain Aging and the Green-Mediterranean Diet: A Secondary Analysis of the DIRECT PLUS Randomized Trial

Green-Mediterranean diet may slow brain aging | Harvard T.H. Chan School of...

Relacionado:

“Mankai is a proprietary strain of duckweed, the world’s tiniest leaf vegetable. It has no roots; it floats on the water. Duckweed has been eaten for hundreds of years in Southeast Asia. Grandmothers in certain tribes, in certain villages, in Laos, Vietnam, and the north of Thailand used to pick it up from slow-moving water bodies in the winter season and use it in soups and salads as a source of protein.

The word ‘Mankai’ combines ‘manna,’ the heaven-sent food; ‘chai,’ which means ‘alive’ in Hebrew; and ‘khai-nam,’ which is the Thai name for duckweed. At Hinoman, we’ve built an entire ecosystem to enable uniform, sustainable production of this plant year round.”
—Ron Salpeter, CEO, Hinoman

https://www.hinoman.com/what-we-do/

EatMankai

https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/agriculture/our-insights/small-plant-big-protein

Meet Mankai Duckweed: A Protein-Packed, Aquatic Supergreen

Wolffia_globosa_(Mankai)UPDATE(food_drink).pdf|attachment (893.4 KB)

[RapAdmin]

The cheapest I could find after a short search:

https://buywolffia.online/collection/all

Some suppliers on Amazon for the powder:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Wolffia+Globosa+Powder&crid=2CM4SJPBL3VPJ&sprefix=wolffia+globosa+powder%2Caps%2C501&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

Note, there are also duckweed suppliers on Etsy. They don’t seem like very trustworthy suppliers (i.e., small mom and pop shops).

https://www.etsy.com/search?q=duckweed%20powder&ref=search_bar

https://www.etsy.com/search?q=Wolffia%20Globosa%20Powder&ref=search_bar

[RapAdmin]

The science revealing how the right diet can add a decade to your life

A Few Days of Fatty Foods Can Disrupt Your Memory, Causing Cognitive Impairment

Discover Magazine: A Few Days of Fatty Foods Can Disrupt Your Memory, Causing Cognitive Impairment