#104

Why not use nitrite test strips to see if your toothpaste (and whatever else you are doing and eating) is stopping your oral nitrite conversion of nitrate? It costs about 50 cents per use. This is one of the few things we don’t have to argue about.

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#105

From your post in this thread

Test #5 – after good 1st thing test, and after eating breakfast, test results also good. No problem with green tea or my breakfast killing my oral biome.
Test #6 – same day, after test #5, did oral hygiene. Test results bad. Two possibilities, toothpaste and tongue brushing. I switched to a “oral biome friendly” toothpaste and switched to tongue scraping vs. brushing.
Test #7 – Celery the night before, post breakfast, new oral hygiene. Good test result.

Could you invest another dollar, and test before brushing, brush with the fluoride-containing toothpaste, and then test again? Just to confirm the almost-similar procedure above.

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#106

I don’t have my old toothpaste any longer. I suspect the biggest problem I had was using my toothpaste covered toothbrush to brush my tongue. Was it the toothpaste or the tongue brushing? I don’t know. The new toothpaste and a tongue scraper arrived together, and I’ve been using ever since. The test strips will solve this problem for each person. It goes way beyond just fluoride in toothpaste, which may not be a problem for some people (or anyone for all I know). Each person needs to work on the variables until finding a livable solution that ends in sufficient NO throughout the day.

#107

Somehow, I will take the word of someone who has worked directly with all three noble laureates for nitric oxide over yours. Call me crazy! And yes, I know you read a few papers. He has spent his entire academic career studying nitric oxide.

#108

Why not use nitrite test strips to see if your toothpaste (and whatever else you are doing and eating) is stopping your oral nitrite conversion of nitrate? It costs about 50 cents per use. This is one of the few things we don’t have to argue about.

Because there is no reason to go to such length to try to prove something that makes no logical sense. I have no good reason to test something I am very confident is not true. The logic that explains why fluoride exposure from using fluoride toothpaste is very unlikely to have significant effects on NO production is this: Firstly, fluoride is at best a very weak antiseptic and not strong enough to kill off a lot of bacteria at concentrations you get from brushing your teeth with fluoride toothpaste. Secondly, studies show that people produce NO from nitrite ingestion and that this production is greatly reduced if the people use strong antibacterial mouthwashes such as those containing high concentrations of alcohol that are well known to effectively kill bacteria. If fluoride toothpaste similarly had a significant effect on killing off NO producing bacteria, then you wouldn’t be seeing much NO production in the people, even those that are not using mouthwash containing high concentrations of alcohol. Why? Because most toothpastes contain fluoride and most people are exposing themselves to small concentrations of fluoride from brushing their teeth daily. Yet studies show that in the absence of alcohol mouthwashes people produce NO from nitrite ingestion. Therefore, anyone making statements about small amount of fluoride form toothpaste negatively influencing NO production got some explaining to do or references to share in support of that statement. I’m not the one that needs to prove anything here. I will keep using my fluoride toothpaste and avoiding alcohol mouthwashes and am not worried about lack of NO production. I would change my mind in the unlikely event that anyone would give me a good reason to, but I know better than not to fall for statements like this on the fluoride and NO.

#109

Somehow, I will take the word of someone who has worked directly with all three noble laureates for nitric oxide over yours. Call me crazy! And yes, I know you read a few papers. He has spent his entire academic career studying nitric oxide.

I’ve read way more than a few papers. I’ve been researching aging for twenty years now and working on it for over a decade doing literature research. Of course that involves reading a lot on nitric oxide. I’ve been trying to maintain optimal nitric oxide concentrations for 15 years and I avoided strong mouthwashes since long ago as one part of that. However, I know well that some scientists can do good science yet make illogical statements that are a little outside of their expertise. Just because someone is an expert on nitric oxide doesn’t make them an expert on fluoride and the oral microbiome. You got to be careful with experts since they can get overconfident and start saying bullshit in areas they are not competent in. It’s very common. That’s why I asked for good reasoning or peer reviewed studies to give evidence of points that make little sense.

#110

Out of curiosity I spent ten minutes looking for studies on fluoride and the oral microbiota and didn’t find anything on NO production but found this study that reported trivial effects of fluoride mouthwash on the microbial composition of children. That supports what I said that fluoride from dental care exposure is very unlikely to eradicate the NO producing bacteria in the oral cavity. From the study:

“During the course of our study, the oral microbial community displayed remarkable resilience towards the disturbances it was presented with. The effects of the fluoride mouthwash on the microbial composition were trivial.”

If anyone still thinks fluoride will adversely effect the oral microbiome to a degree sufficient enough to reduce NO levels, please share some studies in support of that or at least give a reasonable explanation for how that could be the case.

2 Likes
#111

Not to diminish your 20 years in longevity, but he has spent far more than 20 years on nitric oxide. And he definitely believes that fluoride and mouthwash limits the ability to produce nitric oxide. He doesn’t make offhanded comments. This is not outside of his area of expertise. It is exactly within his area of expertise. I think you are running far outside your area of expertise, which seems to be something called “longevity.” You should contact him directly and convince him he is wrong. I think you probably could take some time out of your busy schedule to do that.

#112

I have also failed to find research evidence to justify the thesis that fluoride causes the death of nitrite reducing bacteria in the salivary biome.

I intend to look further at the issue of nitric oxide, however.

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#113

Yes, it’s a fascinating subject. It explains why Viagra doesn’t work with everyone.

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#114

And he definitely believes that fluoride and mouthwash limits the ability to produce nitric oxide. He doesn’t make offhanded comments.

I don’t care what he believes because I don’t know him and therefore don’t trust him. Saying he doesn’t make offhanded comment, that’s your assessment of him. I don’t know you and therefore logically don’t trust your assessment. I don’t know this doctor either and therefore don’t trust him. I trust very few people in science, and only do so after I have seen them be very competent at making reasonable statements supported by science. Even among people I know well, not many pass that bar. So far you have not provided any studies or good reasoning for thinking fluoride is harmful for NO production, and this doctor has not provided any, at least none that you know of. I also didn’t find any doing a quick search and neither did John Hemming. But you still want me to believe it because you trust this doctor. You seem to be just taking his comments as truth regardless of evidence, which is not a good way to make decisions and shows that you yourself just blindly believe him and don’t double check his statements.

And no, I’m not running far outside of my area of expertise. I gave you logical explanations above and even showed you a study in support of it. You have not refuted my logic above nor have you refuted the study I posted or shown me any studies that indicate that fluoride might impair NO production. All you bring to the table is saying “trust this guy because I believe he’s an expert”. I don’t do that. Trust is earned. I’m only interested in discussing this further if the talk revolves around reasoning about the effect of fluoride on NO or discussing studies that shed light on the subject. I’m still waiting for any reasoning or studies showing fluoride impairs NO production.

1 Like
#115

I use regular toothpaste with fluoride. I have all my teeth in place, no crowns or implants. I brush twice and regularly use water pic. My tongue sometimes would get white residue accumulated no matter how well I scrape it. I noticed though that after 1 month on Reg’Activ with Lactobacillius fermentum ME-3 (I add it to my Lactobacillius reuteri kefir every morning), my oral health improved much. My tongue is now clean and red without any scraping. I’m sure it’s either ME-3 or reuteri or both of them due to their anti microbial properties.

4 Likes
#116

Aren’t you a carnivore? That would explain why you trust very few in science. Because they all argue against high lipids and saturated fats.

#117

If by carnivore you think I adhere to the carnivore diet, then absolutely not. I don’t think that’s a scientifically sound diet at all. It’s not really correct to say that I trust very few in science. I trust the scientific literature. I have generally little confidence in news articles and Youtube videos because what is said in such articles/videos is often misinterpreted or taken out of context. If I read a news article about something relating to health such as some new story on something, I go look for the original scientific publication on which it is based and read it directly. That way I will find out for sure whether what the article said is true or not. The same is true for when I watch any Youtube videos on health related subjects, which I don’t do often. If I watch a video on someone talking about a specific subject, if he makes some interesting claims that don’t obviously make sense given what I know, I double check them by looking for the studies where appropriate.

Regarding this scientist that you say said fluoride reduces nitric oxide production, if he cannot give a logical explanation or scientific evidence in support of that claim then his credentials mean nothing. If someone makes a claim that is unsound because it is not reasonable based on known biology and is not supported by any studies, then the claim is still unsound no matter if the person making it is a Nobel price winner with a super high IQ. In contrast, if I see someone that consistently makes reasonable claims supported by science, then I will eventually, after double checking many of his claims, start to trust what he says, in that area at least. The reason I trust very few scientists talking about health is the same reason I don’t trust doctors when it comes to dietary advice.

5 Likes
#118

RapAdmin

Just over 1 year since you started this thread.
Have you used the DIY toothpaste through the year?
What results have you had with it?

#119

I created one batch of rapamycin toothpaste and used it over a period of 4 or 5 months. I then got involved in a plasmapheresis clinical trial and rapamycin wasn’t allowed by users in the trial, so I paused it for 6 months. I’m going to ramp up use again now and make some more. I’m sorry, I have no results to report at this time. Perhaps someone else can comment who has continued the regimen.

#120

Dear Christian
Thanks a lot for this info : i tried to write the email you provided but it got rejected as “ undeliverable “ : do you have another email in the meantime ?

Thnks

#121

I’ve just made some up now, hope it is of benefit as my teeth/gums are my problem area.

1 Like
#122

Eighteen months in, I am still using my homemade toothpaste/rapa/transcutol mix once or twice a day, and I apply some paste to my floss while I use it. After brushing, I don’t rinse in order to leave the fluoride and rapa. I’ve been satisfied with the results, but nothing dramatic: excellent dental exams (a slight improvement), reduced discomfort where there was enamel loss, and excellent gum health (status quo).

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#123

Don’t use DMSO. I made rapa skin cream with a DMSO gel solution and tried a small amount on my toothbrush… Terrible taste and it took all day to subside.

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