On one of the many podcasts I’ve watched on high-dose melatonin, one of the speakers said that for some people (who have trouble increasing melatonin because it makes them sleepy during the day) its because of some sort of threshold effect where you need to get about some amount to stop having that problem. Unfortunately, I’ve lost the original source to that and can’t seem to find it anymore.
For me personally, when I started high-dose melatonin, I went straight from 10mg every night to 360mg. I DID NOT do a slow ramp up. In my case, I had no ill effects from doing that.
3 Likes
RapMet
#42
what was the purpose of such dose and did it work?
1 Like
For anti-cancer and anti-viral benefits. See my earlier comment in this thread where I posted links to the two videos that started me down this path. I currently take 720mg/day, 480mg at night and 240mg spread throughout the day.
3 Likes
I am using compounded melatonin and also full spectrum CBN with natural terpenes (pink label Humacology brand, Australia). No side effects at all or cognitive issues. Just had a blood test and all well- ’ diabetes unlikely’.
3 Likes
Thank you! Good to know there are CBN products available in Australia
The evidence seems to be mixed. There are some studies showing that it negatively influences fasting glucose and insulin sensitivity. However, I haven’t researched this enough to say whether this is a concern or if these studies are the exception:
2 Likes
In some cases, yes, but generally no. Yes, there are cases of green tea extract causing major harm to the liver, but these are rare exceptions that don’t reflect the safety og green tea as much as they reflect the individual variation in genes that predispose to toxicity. There are some people that are susceptible to green tea toxicity because apparently they have genes that result in slower breakdown of EGCG or some of the other compounds in green tea. They will see an elevation in liver enzymes from taking high doses of it.
Most people do not experience an elevation in liver enzyme from taking even relatively high doses of EGCG. In any case, you can easily measure your ALT, AST and GGT before and after taking green tea extract to see if they increase, so a good idea for peoople taking relatively high doses of green tea extract is to test liver enzymes before and after and don’t immediately go to a high dose.
The safety of green tea is well proven by the fact that millions of people drink it daily. Yes, it’s not the extract, but some are drinking 6 cups a day and some of these will happen to be drinking cultivars that are unusually rich in EGCG and will have the genetic variations that cause them to break it down slowly. Despite this, green tea is known to be very safe. That to me indicates that people shouldn’t worry about low doses, but of course, caution is adviced when taking higher doses. Personally I’ve been taking green tea extract getting 400 mg of EGCG daily for many years, and my liver enzymes are excellent.
One thing that is important here that many people don’t know is that EGCG apparently is several times more bioavailable on a fasting stomach than with meals. So a dose that is fine with a meal can be too high if taken during fasting. I take my green tea extract with meals. Lots of people of course don’t know this and take it during fasting and get a lot higher dose, yet most of them are fine.
3 Likes
tj_long
#48
" Melatonin has been investigated mostly for its role in sleep and circadian regulation. The recent discovery of MTNR1B as a novel type 2 diabetes (T2D) gene has sparked great interest in the role of melatonin in glucose control among diabetologists and basic researchers alike.
Despite intensive research, there exist conflicting data regarding the effects of melatonin and MTNR1B genotype on glucose control, and disagreement on whether melatonin may increase or decrease fasting glucose, glucose tolerance and T2D risk.
The concurrence of elevated melatonin concentrations with food intake decreases glucose tolerance, while high melatonin during fasting may facilitate β-cell recovery.
Shift workers, night eaters, and melatonin users are susceptible to the adverse effect brought by the concurrence of food intake and high melatonin levels."
" Several levels of society may be affected by this Timing Model (Figure 2). Once the central hypothesis is fully tested, in the general population, it may be better to avoid eating meals, especially high glycemic meals, close to exogenous melatonin intake or during the night when the endogenous melatonin levels are normally high. For clinical practice, since most glycemic assessments are performed in the morning, clinicians may find that people have better glucose tolerance in the absence of melatonin. However, if the test is done very early in the morning or if patients display late chronotypes – i.e., in both cases testing would occur especially early relative to their circadian phase – then melatonin may be still elevated and thereby impair glucose control."
3 Likes
sudiki
#49
mg (magnesium) is very low on bioavailabilty (uptake) but is necessary for proper heart health. I was on PPI’s for many, many yrs due to really bad GERD and I started having some heart issues. (skipped beats/pvc’s). My cardiologist did many tests and we found out my mg was in the toilet! (critical low). the “standard” supplement is magnesium oxide but it’s uptake is extremely poor and didn’t budge my low numbers. I ended taking one that had 3 different mg’s in it and finally my levels were at minimum levels. I stopped the PPI… ( one would think that your Gastro Dr. expert .would warn you about that and advise you to take mg supplements but Nooooooo!)
2 Likes
Its only MgO that is low on bioavailability.
2 Likes
sudiki
#51
not so. many other forms are also low but oxide is the worse.(4%) carbonate, sulfate (10%) and hydroxide are some others besides oxide… I did quite a bit of research a couple of yrs ago when I was having issues with critically low mg.and was trying to find some that would help. The supplement I eventually used had 3 different mg’s in it with taurate and glycinate being two of the three. (I don’t remember the third, possibly chloride, citrate or malate)
One source, science direct: (of many)
“There is a difference in bioavailability among different Mg presentation forms, with effervescent tablets or granule formulations better than tablets due to their solubility. The percentage of Mg absorption decreases with increasing dose. Organic forms are better absorbed than inorganic forms. Mg taurate seems to be one of the most bioavailable Mg salts.”
Magnesium supplements come in aspartate, citrate, lactate, chloride, oxide, sulfate, threonate, malate, and glycinate forms but some are more bioavailable—which means they are easier for your body to use, according to the NIH.
5 Likes
mccoy
#52
@sudiki: Since you’ve been doing some research on magnesium salts, which ones, besides magnesium threonate, penetrate the blood-brain barrier? There is not much discussion on this aspect.
I would not take MgO, nor Mg citrate because it’s too acidic, whereas I would like to enjoy the gabaergic effects of Mg in the brain, of course it must be able to reach the CNS.
2 Likes
DrM
#53
Wt. gain and liver function risk. Dont mix with alcohol.
2 Likes
Yes i just found out anticholinergics (i.e. benadryl, hydroxyzine, etc) drastically increase your risk of dementia
3 Likes
To jump in on the melatonin conversation - I take 5 mg melatonin nightly but I’m careful to use brands with third party purity screening bc of the study showing that the majority of melatonin supplements are highly contaminated with serotonin. Increased serotonin has been linked to a reduced life span.
2 Likes
Tim
#56
Yes, and dry mouth too. It can be a little rough. I use it or something like tt EOD.
The following are from ConsumerLab
(I am confused why some popular brands (Natrol) put high amounts of Vit B6 in their melatonin. )
2 Likes
Because I take a lot of melatonin I avoid tablets with additional active substances in them and particularly B6.
3 Likes
