#27

For partially blocking virus entering through nose I use ointment before leaving home. It’s not 100% virus proof. When I come home after visiting crowded spaces, I use a squeeze bottle to wash off whatever accumulated and hope it reduces the viral load. It’s all about reducing the load, which should help along with general hygiene and vaccinations.

Another convenient method is to use a small bottle with an attached pipette. Easy to carry in a purse or pocket. I squeeze one full pipette into each side. The solution travels through nose to throat and has to be spit out. I prefer this method to a sprayer.

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#28

After reading up on the research, I went shopping for ingredients at the big A. It was a fair bit of trouble, so I thought I’d save you the trouble and share my results. These items are all in stock as of my today purchase.

It was challenging to find pure carrageenan with solid reviews for both product and the seller. I ended up with not the cheapest, but if I’m putting it up my nose, I don’t want cheap anyway.
(It should last me a small ice age. Unless I take up vegan cheese-making.) Same issues with some of the other ingredients.

Here you go:

Carrageenan: no additives, 100% food grade Kappa Carrageenan

Povidone-iodine (PVP-I) (mispelled “providone” above): 10% Povidone Iodine Solution, 8 Fluid Ounces:

Xylitol: NOW Foods, Organic Xylitol, Pure with No Added Ingredients, 1-Pound:

Salt: Fine Grain, Non-Iodized, All-Natural, No Additives:

Total with tax ~$43 USD.

I’m looking forward to trying out your formula, @Upgeya – much gratitude for sharing this with us!

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#29

I’ve found that bacteria eventually grows in the solution (after many months), so I now freeze the batch in between bottle fillings. If you don’t use the bottle often, I recommend checking for bacterial growth, or using more povidone iodine in the formula. Also, be sure to shake the bottle well before using, as the iota likes to separate.

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#30

LaraPro and @sol

Early on, I heard not to use neti pot during covid because you don’t want to push the virus further into your cavity… that is why I’ve been using the enovid… just sprays the nostril but not enough to go much further.

This was early days of the pandemic, so I realize there might be newer thoughts on this.

Sound like the current thinking might be to use one after a lot of exposure? I assume neti pots are similar to the squeeze bottles. Would you ever put a little colloidal silver in the neti pot? My doc had me do that during a sinus infection phase I had a couple of decades ago. It did work and kept me off antibiotics

And thx Sol, i do only use distilled water after reading some scary things a few years ago.

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#31

Good thoughts. Any sense for how high you can safely (and comfortably) go with the PVP-I and still keep the solution effective? (I would be grateful to know if/when you change your formula.)

Freezing is also a fine idea. I’ll be looking to go through the batch in a month and no more, regardless; the last thing i want to do is introduce bacteria into my nasal passages. :stuck_out_tongue:

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#32

Hi Sol. This article recommended 1% PVP-I in a stand-alone spray, which I used before developing my formula: https://medhelpclinics.com/resources/advice-from-the-doctor/at-home-treatment-protocol-for-covid-19

I’m looking into including gellan and/or pectin in the formula. Researchers at Harvard Medical School have developed a nasal spray called PCANS (pathogen capture and neutralizing spray) that in pre-clinical studies was effecive in stopping 99% of infection by viruses & bacteria in mice.The nasal spray, which coats the inside of the nose, has three mechanisms of action – bursting droplets, capturing the pathogens, and neutralizing them. It captures pathogens in a strong, gel-like matrix (gellan?). Akita Biosciences has licensed the tech to Profi, who are selling it as a personal-care product, without making any health claims. They list the ingredients as purified water, pectin, gellan, phenethyl alcohol, benzalkonium chloride, and polysorbate 80. Gellan is FDA classified as GRAS, and the other five are listed in the FDA’s inactive ingredient database for nasal use at higher concentrations than found in Profi. * Gellan gum is a gelling agent, used to replace agar at significantly lower concentrations in solid culture media for the growth of various microorganisms. It’s been approved for food, non-food, cosmetic and pharmaceutical uses by many countries, including the US, Canada, China, Korea and the EU. It is widely used as a thickener, emulsifier, and stabilizer, and as an alternative to gelatin, in the manufacture of vegan varieties of “gum” candies. EWG lists no concerns.
* Phenethyl alcohol occurs widely in nature, being found in a variety of essential oils. It is only slightly soluble in water (2 ml per 100 ml of H2O), but miscible with most organic solvents. It’s rated at 2 (fairly good) by EWG, with moderate allergies & immunotoxicity the only concern.
* Benzalkonium chloride is a biocide, preservative and surfactant associated with severe skin, eye, and respiratory irritation and allergies, and a sensitizer especially dangerous for people with asthma or skin conditions such as eczema. It’s rated at 6 (quite concerning) by EWG, with high allergy & immunotoxicity concern.
* Polysorbate 80 is a surfactant and emulsifier used in cleaners and personal care products. It’s EWG score is 1-2 (safe), except when used in products that are inhalable, because of respiratory concerns.

https://www.fastcompany.com/91200803/harvard-researchers-might-have-found-a-way-to-prevent-covid-flu-common-cold

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/adma.202406348

2 Likes
#33

Yes – I’m tracking PCANS. Keenly interested.

I had hoped that the carrageenan would serve a similar purpose. Carrageenan with 80% protective effects in human studies, in real-world, adverse conditions, as opposed to mouse-lab-99%. Hard to compare. Still, “99%” is compelling.

What are your thoughts about changes to your formula?

#34

@sol I’m thinking to try the gellan, in varying amounts (as I don’t have any sense for concentration), in addition to the Iota carrageenan, to see the behavior of the solution. I also need to think about the role the other ingredients in the PCANS play in that formula. Why were those ingredients chosen? Do you have any understanding?

1 Like
#35

I don’t even have the ingredients list. I looked and didn’t find. Can you link or supply?

#36

@sol, I list the ingredients in my post above. The info is in the FAQ on their website, also linked above, and repeated here: FAQ – Profi Nasal Spray
Look under the 3 FAQ “What is in Profi?”

1 Like
#37

This seems to be the company brining it to the market right

If so, is the Profi Spray that the company above offers the same as PCANS in the paper @RapAdmin shared at the top of this thread or just some other product they are developing:

Akita links to this spray and the website with the spray features the PCANs peer reviewed paper and this website also features a couple of Harvard Professors and their scientists

Actually does not seem that crazy expensive (even if they seem to have patents)…

@sol @Upgeya @Joseph_Lavelle @LaraPo @Beth - do you have any thoughts

99% protection seems quite amazing if that comes close in humans

2 Likes
#38

I ordered Profi spray yesterday and am in line to get it. Hope it comes before the season starts.

1 Like
#39

I see it’s $20 a bottle which is in my budget!

Does the hivemind think this is better than enovid, i think so, right? And if you use this, will you also continue to saline rinse?
Sorry, I can’t make a move without you!!

I will go ahead and get in the ordering queue

#40

Never used silver for nose irrigation, but use it for gargling. Cannot say that it helped much, on the other hand when virus is already in throat nothing helps and I tried it all (camomile, baking soda/salt/iodine, Lugol solution, peroxide). Though theoretically colloidal silver should help.

1 Like
#41

Thanks. Moving discussion to DM.

#42

I finally re-read this section more carefully. I note this 99% is in lab mice, pre-clinical testing, with significant conflict of interest. With this level of conflict of interest, for a product of extensive possible payoff for the authors, I have a higher expectation of independent research, trial, and study.

That said, give me a little proof, and I’d be on my way to make my own nasal PCANS (Pathogen Capture and Neutralizing Spray), now that I have made and used @Upgeya 's formula (which is not PCANS and is based in real-world human research and trials), because I am starting to understand some of the chemistry and mechanism of action involved.

But… extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

#43

Update: I have mixed Carrageenan Anti-viral nasal spray using @Upgeya’s recipe, and am using it regularly when I go into exposure situations. I perceive only very mild systemic changes, and I tend toward the sensitive, so reporting for myself, I am comfortable saying I seem to tolerate it fine.

I aspire to improve on the formula over time. I am also interested in exploring making a PCANS nasal spray.

Alas, we can’t know if the formula works, unless it fails. And even then we don’t know – was the failure the formula, the application, or just bad luck? So the key question, “does it work?”, is unanswerable unless you’re running a human research trial.

While I’m basing my own use on human trials and research for the main ingredients (Iota-Carrageenan, xylitol, Povidone-iodine), PCANS doesn’t yet have a human research trial. But the mechanism of action is intriguing enough to keep it on my radar.

Speaking of aspirations, I’m considering assembling an informal team to explore antiviral DIY nasal approaches, ideally with good science backgrounds, interested in noodling this recipe, improvements, PCANS, etc. Ideally folks who know a bit about biochemistry and mechanisms of action. More than I do, anyway.

Alternatively, if you know of a DIY anti-viral nasal spray group online, tell me where? I looked and couldn’t find. (I do know about the covid nasal vaccine folks, but that was a more complicated recipe than I was able to engage with, and they seem to have gone quiet in any case.)

If you’re interested, send me a PM. If we get critical mass, we’ll take it to discord or slack or somewhere like that, and report back here if/when we have something worth sharing.

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Rapamycin as a possible treatment for Long Covid
#44

Isn’t a saline nasal rinse antiviral?

1 Like
#45

No, a saline nasal rinse is not antiviral. I think it may help relieve congestion, etc.

“While saline nasal rinses can be beneficial as an adjunctive measure to reduce symptoms and viral load, they do not possess intrinsic antiviral properties. Further research is needed to fully understand the extent of their clinical benefits and to optimize their use in viral infections.[1-2]”

2 Likes
#46

Or maybe not. :frowning:

This long, very detailed post begins thus:

There is a lot of misinformation out there about nasal sprays preventing COVID-19. Unfortunately, there are no convincing studies showing that nasal sprays prevent COVID-19. The published studies investigating whether or not nasal sprays prevent COVID-19 each have major issues, which I will detail here.

I have a PhD in biochemistry and one of my PhD projects was on COVID-19. The main takeaway of this post is that there is no sound evidence that nasal sprays prevent COVID-19. Thus, nasal sprays should not be used for COVID-19 prevention in place of effective measures such as high-quality well-fitting respirators, ventilation and air purification.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ZeroCovidCommunity/comments/1iv64oi/there_is_no_convincing_evidence_that_nasal_sprays/