Its a nuisance that they want to charge USD57 for a single copy of this paper. I would not myself mind putting a small amount of cash up to pay for some of these papers if they can be shared as a form of Rapamycin.news library. However, to pay USD57 for one person to read it does not seem value for money.
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AnUser
#187
You can request articles for free here Scholar and someone might be able to get it for you. Worked for me multiple times.
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There is also this:
http://www.wosonhj.com/
Where someone might find an article for you. However, both this and Reddit don’t always work.
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Done on very young adult subjects with small differences found. I wouldn’t think aging even begins until 25, so what are they measuring, I wonder?
“We use blood tests and body metrics data of 421 Hungarian athletes and 283 age-matched controls (mean age 24.1 and 23.9 years, respectively). RESULTS: We find lower age acceleration among athletes compared to the age-matched controls with a median value of -1.7 and 1.4 years.”
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ng0rge
#190
I’m looking to get a heart rate monitor especially to get readings on resting heart rate, maximum heart rate and heart rate variation. The idea of getting a good approximation of Vo2 max from the Coros Apex 2 is also appealing because a real Vo2 Max test is expensive and not widely available. RapAdmin, have you been able to check your Coros readings against a full Vo2 max test yet? Do you like the Coros Apex 2?
Davin8, how is the Scosche Rhythm24 working out? It’s certainly a lot cheaper. It doesn’t do the Vo2 max (approximate) measure does it? The Polar H10 also looks very accurate at a reasonable price but I’m sceptical about the comfort of a chest strap. Polar also has an arm band, the Verity Sense but I don’t think it does HRV.
And what about the Morpheus? And none of these work as a sleep monitor, do they? Well maybe the Coros. Does the Rhythm24 work as a sleep monitor, too?
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I’ve not done a comparison - but other people have. You can see this video below where some guy does a review of the major VO2Max watches and how they compare in terms of accuracy vs. a real V02Max test. General I’m not a big fan of the Coros user interface and software. I like the Garmin better (from what I’ve seen), and will likely migrate over to that platform at some point. And while I was hoping that these types of watches would also be a reasonable solution for sleep monitoring, I find the watch too bulky / large to want to keep it on at night… but on the positive side, I like that the Coros I have will hold a charge for almost 2 weeks.
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Davin8r
#192
I haven’t been using my Scosche or the Morpheus app lately. It’s kind of a hassle every morning when I wake up (but before I get out of bed) to reach over and put on the Scosche and spend several minutes, completely still/flat, getting my heart rate variability and readiness info, especially when my 80 pound dog is jumping around trying to get me out of bed. Of course, this would be even more of a pain if I had to put on the chest strap instead of the arm band. But the Scosche has issues with the Morpheus app (doesn’t connect at all sometimes, and when it does connect, it takes a long time), and tech support was useless and blamed the issue on Scosche (but the Scosche connects instantly and works perfectly with the Scosche app, so it sure looks like Morpheus is to blame). Adding to all the issues, the customer relations/tech support guy for Morpheus is quite a piece of work (very emotional and defensive/combative/condescending if you ask a question or make a suggestion on how to potentially improve the product). As you can see, I’m a bit soured on it at the moment! 
Also, no the Scosche Rhythm24 is not a sleep monitor and doesn’t do VO2max estimate.
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ng0rge
#193
Thanks RapAdmin and Davin8, kind of what I was getting from my research online. Best sleep monitor (and HRV since it’s best measured at night) is probably the Oura ring. I’ve looked at the Ultrahuman ring and am waiting for the Samsung ring to come out. For Vo2 max, Garmin looks good and Amazon has the ForeRunner 245 on sale for $200 but if you want HRV you have to move up to the new ForeRunner 255 for $350.
Neo
#194
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HRV is a very thin slice of cheese. If you cut corners on the data capture then you are interpreting not real data. The apps make use of whatever data is put into them. They make error adjustments (some are better than others) and display answers that may be useful. Why go through all that just to have false data?
Only a chest strap is collecting the electrical signals from the heart. Everything else is an estimate.
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ng0rge
#196
Thanks Neo and Joseph, Good advice and since the Polar H10 seems to be the gold standard for accuracy, I think I’ll go with that. And also these 2 websites encouraged me as for HRV and the possibility of using it to get a sleep score.
https://elitehrv.com/heart-variability-monitors-and-elite-hrv-compatible-monitors
Full-blown sleep tracking with new Polar devices. - Sleep as Android
I also came across these comments on Reddit:
“Chest straps need moisture to reliably pick up a reading, wetting the strap with water or spit works fine if your about to workout and sweat; if you’re about to sleep it’ll probably dry out during the night. I got some conductive gel on Amazon, and haven’t had any dropouts. I use mine with Sleep As Android to track my sleep.”
“the H10 pairs well with the free Elite HRV app which gives you recovery, HRV, and sleep insights with a 60 second morning reading.”
Hopefully, I can work with it to get it comfortable enough to use.
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“How to be 80 year old and have the VO2max of a 35 year old”
Quite simple really…
- ~30min of strength training each week to keep skeletal muscle mass ~50% of total mass.
- ~60 min of “vigorous” (z2-4) aerobic training each week.
(Note: Nothing above 9METs ~65% VO2max!)
- 2.5hrs of easy aerobic (Z0/Z1) exercise per day
The #Blueprint to successful #Aging
Source: Alan Couzens: https://x.com/Alan_Couzens/status/1767894527547723787?s=20
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Nice! I’m amazed how the story has shifted over time. The new thing was zone 2 vs anaerobic / threshold / HIIT (80/20) … now it’s zone 0/1 vs zone 2+ (80/20). “A lot of easy with a little bit of hard” is the message now, and don’t skip the resistance training.
For amateur athletes, fat max is zone 1.
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Neo
#199
I don’t think we have given up power of Zone 2, rather think the above was modified for 80 year olds?
@Neo I recommend you find Alan Couzens on Twitter (see link in thread above) to understand his recommendations on training. He seems to be a very experienced and knowledgable coach. Naturally, zones are set for each person based on power or heart rate, but Couzens confirmed that fat max (the highest rate of fat calorie burning) is most often found in zone 1 for regular humans (including himself)…this would be where most people should spend most of their training time. I used to do zone 3 or higher for almost all of my training…now its zone 1 with a modest amount of threshold work (think FTP…highest you could do for 1 hour, so not max by any stretch of the imagination) and a tiny amount of max HR work.
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I am a bit confused about this also. Isn’t zone 1 and zone 2 pretty close? I definitely could not keep my heart rate at zone 1 when running but easier to achieve when swimming or biking. And wouldn’t the 80/20 ratio be most related to athletes above a certain age? I can’t conceive of most younger athletes having the patience for zone 1. The following site pretty much blends zone 1 and 2 within the same training zone. see Beginner Triathlete
Neo
#202
Yes, have been following Allan for almost a year. Agree he is great.
(Was just not agreeing that the amount of zone 1 he was suggesting for the 80 year old is consistent with what I feel he has been suggesting more in general - where it feels like zone 2 would play a larger role).
The following is from the “Perspective” segment of the paper you give.
It is possible to be an 80-year-old man and have a VO2max of a 35-year-old with a low cardiovascular risk profile. The volume of physical activity for an active and highly fit 80-year-old man is high, seven and two times higher than recommendations for moderate and vigorous physical activity. The reduction in VO2max with aging is normal in the 80-year-old man, indicating the importance of having a high maximal oxygen uptake at a young age.
Note how they surmise that an 80 man year old man needs to be training hard his whole life. Contrast this with the recent article on the 93 year old rower. He started training later in life (73 I believe). Also, the volume of activity at 80 is very high compared to younger men. Again, contrast this with the 93 year old rower. His training is much less vigorous in comparison.
There is a lot to consider here. But my guess is that there are few younger people living now that could have the same results as the man in this report. The cultural and physical lifestyle that existed for this person has disappeared.
But if anyone were to reverse engineer this person’s experience that allows running at such a high level on a treadmill - I would love to see it. But I find most younger folks on this forum pretty clueless about how they are going maintain an active life into their older years. I would add Peter Attia to that clueless category as an example. The majority of younger active folks are going to beat themselves up with some activity and wonder how they got to be so decrepit despite thinking they did all the right things.
What’s the plan younger folk? 
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"Peter Attia posted a new podcast featuring peak performance with Olav Aleksander Bu. Haven’t viewed it yet but looks very interesting and features VO2 max.
Olav Aleksander Bu is an internationally renowned sports scientist acclaimed for his coaching prowess with elite athletes spanning a diverse range of sports disciplines. In this episode, Olav delves deep into the intricacies of VO2 max and its profound impact on performance. They explore the relationship between VO2 max and ATP production, energy efficiency, and power, as well as the impact of low-intensity training on VO2 max. The conversation extends to Olav’s experiences pushing the boundaries with high-performance athletes and the data driven interventions he uses to improve performance. They also dissect the role of lactate threshold, discuss other important metrics to track, and explore the exciting possibility of utilizing a portable VO2 testing device as a practical alternative to traditional lab-based assessments.
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I will definitely listen to this eventually but I’m not sure I’ll learn much that I can use on myself. I am not interested in maximizing my athletic performance. I am only interested in maintaining a good level of fitness for my enjoyment of life and to get exercise/ activity that supports my health now and into the future.
I often wonder if Attia has lost the longevity thread and is just rationalizing his natural tendency for extreme everything. Not just swimming but swimming to Catalina island multiple times. Not just hiking but hiking with 50 lbs of useless stuff in a backpack.
Let me know if I am missing something.
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