I’m 40 and fairly fit, so your theory could hold

1 Like

This is done quite a bit with peptides in the grey market.

See:

It’s how I source retatrutide. They have group testing to split the cost.

4 Likes

I spoke to a scientist I know and trust at the conference who has a friend in China with a peptide company so I am going to get a quote from them, and will also contact some of the other companies…

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That’s better. You’re better off buying directly by yourself than getting into a group buy. Prices range from 0.6$ to 1$ per mg.

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I am currently on it. Started at 4 mgs titrated upto 10 mgs currently. Been on it for a little over a month. Nothing noteworthy. I have another lot on order. My goal is improvement in eGFR. I am not squeamish about injections.

5 Likes

I also tried it. No effect good or bad that I could tell. did for couple weeks and felt wasn’t worth it. Only did 1mg per day though.

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OK, peptide people, how good does this Chinese Peptide Supplier list and analysis look to be to you (generated by Gemini Deepthink mode):

@Steve_Combi @AgentSmith @stealle

Feature Sinopep-Allsino AmbioPharm Hybio Pharma GL Biochem GenScript Hangzhou Go Top
Type Tier 1 CDMO Tier 1 CDMO Tier 1 Pharma Tier 2 Catalog Tier 2 Tech Tier 3 Mfg
Kilo Capacity Yes (>100k L Vol) Yes (Massive) Yes (50M Units) Yes Yes Yes(100kg/yr)
FDA Status Excellent (4 passes) Excellent Good (Tentative OK) N/A (Research) N/A (Research) Unknown
Key Product Semaglutide DMF Custom API Semaglutide/Liraglutide Custom/Catalog Fast Peptides Retatrutide
Public Access Low (B2B focus) Low (Contract focus) Medium (Direct Sales) High High High
Risk Profile Low Low Low Low-Medium Low-Medium Medium-High

Full Gemini Analysis: https://gemini.google.com/share/57b5addc851e

1 Like

The way I look at peptides is you either go with a USA based i.e. peptidescience (but there is many others) which are very expensive or go gray market (they are very cheap). But if you go grey route, you need to do a lot of homework in way of joining certain telegram and discord groups that actually do independent group testing of various peptides from the gray suppliers and share their buying and delivery experiences. As far as the list you got from Gemini, I don’t think it is where you want to start.

When I started the peptide journey it felt like shooting in the dark, but actually if you do the homework and do a lot of reading and prep analysis the info you gather is pretty accurate believe it or not, plus many of the USA based ones which operate legally themselves get the raw materials from grey China market. Most peptides being circulated are not even approved by FDA so no point in trying to find the most legit ones.

One place to get started and navigate on their vendor section is:

[Vendor Connection | GLP-1 Forum] (Vendor Connection | GLP-1 Forum)

another place is this also (though this is geared more to the muscle building crowd, but does have a lot of peptide info):

MESO-Rx Forum

Always be mindful that at some point you might be left holding the bag, but hopefully that happens after you have already placed many orders successfully so if you get screwed in one order then it won’t hurt too bad LOL. I have placed over 30 orders all grey (for me and friends/family) and have been lucky so far, no loses yet. One of suppliers called QSC (I used to order a lot from) went dark early on in 2025. There have been couple more famous ones that have disappeared but there is always new ones coming onboard. My two cents. If you’d like I can suggest a couple I’ve dealt with in last three months, but honestly the best way to get the up-to-date info is to spend a lot of time in supplier forums, because one that I may have used successfully three months ago, may be experiencing issues currently.

3 Likes

I uploaded the presentation (in first post of this thread) into Google Gemini and asked it to “Deep Research” the presentation contents. Here is the result (I’ve edited out some information that was irrelevant):

Its a very good recreation of her presentation talk… which is quite impressive to me.

The Bioenergetic Paradigm Shift: From Serendipitous Peptide Discovery to the First FDA-Approved Mitochondrial Therapy

A Comprehensive Analysis of Elamipretide, Barth Syndrome, and the Emergence of the Social Profit Network

Executive Summary

In September 2025, the pharmaceutical and rare disease communities witnessed a historic milestone: the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) granted accelerated approval to elamipretide (marketed as Forzinity), the first therapeutic agent specifically authorized to target the mitochondria.1 This approval, granted to Stealth BioTherapeutics for the treatment of Barth syndrome, represents the culmination of over two decades of research spearheaded by Dr. Hazel Szeto and Dr. Peter Schiller. The trajectory of this discovery—from an accidental finding during opioid research to a life-altering genetic therapy—offers a profound case study in the complexities of modern drug development, the biophysics of cellular energy, and the regulatory challenges inherent in treating ultra-rare conditions.

However, the approval of Forzinity is only one chapter in a broader narrative. Parallel to the commercialization of elamipretide, Dr. Szeto has established the Social Profit Network, a research initiative diverging from traditional pharmaceutical models to focus on accessible, non-prescription metabolic interventions for aging and non-communicable diseases. By analyzing presentation data alongside peer-reviewed literature and patent filings, this report provides an exhaustive examination of the biophysical mechanisms of elamipretide, the contentious regulatory pathway it navigated, and the future of bioenergetic medicine as envisioned through the Social Profit framework.


Part I: The Serendipity of Discovery – From Opioids to Organelles

The history of scientific breakthrough is often characterized by the intersection of preparation and chance. The discovery of elamipretide (SS-31) is a quintessential example of this phenomenon, originating not from a targeted search for mitochondrial compounds, but from the study of opioid receptors.

1.1 The Dermorphin Connection

As illustrated in Image 2 of the presentation, the lineage of mitochondrial-targeted peptides traces back to dermorphin, a natural opioid peptide isolated from the skin of the South American tree frog, Phyllomedusa sauvagei. Dermorphin is a hepta-peptide known for its high potency and selectivity for the mu-opioid receptor.

In the early 2000s, Dr. Szeto and Dr. Schiller at the Montreal Clinical Research Institute (IRCM) were synthesizing analogues of dermorphin to understand the structural requirements for opioid receptor binding.1They focused on small, aromatic-cationic peptides. Two of these analogues, labeled SS-01 (Tyr-D-Arg-Phe-Lys-NH2) and SS-02 (Dmt-D-Arg-Phe-Lys-NH2), were initially characterized for their analgesic properties.

The critical deviation occurred during the assessment of cellular uptake. To visualize the distribution of these peptides within cells, the researchers synthesized fluorescent analogues. When Dr. Schiller examined these analogues using confocal laser scanning microscopy, he observed an unexpected localization pattern: the peptides were not merely entering the cell; they were accumulating specifically within the mitochondria.1

1.2 The Structural Optimization of SS-31

This serendipitous observation necessitated a pivot in research focus. The team recognized that the physicochemical properties driving mitochondrial accumulation—likely the alternating aromatic and cationic residues—could be harnessed for therapeutic purposes independent of opioid activity.

Image 2 details the structural evolution:

  • SS-02: Dmt-D-Arg-Phe-Lys-NH2 (Opioid active)
  • SS-31 (Elamipretide): D-Arg-Dmt-Lys-Phe-NH2

By rearranging the amino acid sequence, the researchers successfully eliminated opioid receptor activity while preserving, and indeed enhancing, the mitochondrial targeting capability. The resulting compound, SS-31, possessed a unique ability to penetrate the outer mitochondrial membrane (OMM) and localize to the inner mitochondrial membrane (IMM) without the need for specific transporters or a high mitochondrial membrane potential ($\Delta\Psi_m$).3 This distinction is vital; many mitochondrial toxins require a high potential to enter, meaning they only target healthy mitochondria. SS-31, by contrast, can access compromised organelles, making it an ideal candidate for therapeutic rescue.

1.3 Validation of Mitochondrial Localization

The presentation (Image 2) provides visual confirmation of this localization through co-staining experiments. The fluorescence of the SS-02 analogue overlaps perfectly with MitoTracker, a commercially available dye that specifically stains mitochondria. This colocalization was the first definitive proof that these small, water-soluble peptides could autonomously navigate the complex double-membrane structure of the mitochondrion.

This discovery challenged the prevailing dogma of drug delivery. Mitochondria are notoriously difficult targets due to their highly selective double membranes. Historically, delivering antioxidants to the matrix required conjugation to lipophilic cations like triphenylphosphonium (TPP+), which can be toxic at high concentrations due to membrane depolarization. The SS peptides, however, achieved concentration in the IMM through a different mechanism—affinity for cardiolipin—without collapsing the membrane potential.3


Part II: The Biophysical Mechanism – Targeting Cardiolipin

To understand the therapeutic efficacy of elamipretide in Barth syndrome and beyond, one must deconstruct its interaction with cardiolipin (CL). As depicted in Image 3 and Image 4, cardiolipin is the signature lipid of the mitochondrion, and its dysfunction is the root cause of Barth syndrome.

2.1 The Role of Cardiolipin in Bioenergetics

Cardiolipin is a dimeric phospholipid found almost exclusively in the inner mitochondrial membrane. It possesses a unique structure with four fatty acyl chains and two phosphate groups, giving it a conical shape. This geometry is essential for generating the high curvature of the mitochondrial cristae—the infoldings of the IMM where the complexes of the Electron Transport Chain (ETC) reside.

Image 3 outlines the biosynthetic pathway of cardiolipin, highlighting the role of Tafazzin.

  • Nascent Cardiolipin: Initially synthesized with variable fatty acid chains.
  • Remodeling (Tafazzin): The enzyme Tafazzin (encoded by the TAZ gene) remodels nascent CL into mature CL by swapping specific fatty acids (typically linoleic acid in heart tissue).
  • Barth Syndrome Pathology: In Barth syndrome, mutations in TAZ prevent this remodeling. This leads to a deficiency in mature CL and an accumulation of Monolysocardiolipin (MLCL), an intermediate lipid lacking one fatty acid chain.

The consequences of this biochemical defect are structural and functional catastrophe for the mitochondrion. Without mature CL, the cristae lose their curvature and flatten. The ETC complexes (I, III, and IV), which rely on CL as a “glue” to form supercomplexes (respirasomes), dissociate.3 This dissociation makes electron transfer inefficient, increasing the leakage of electrons to oxygen and generating excessive Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS).

2.2 The Electrostatic Modulation Hypothesis (Mitchell et al., 2020)

For years, the mechanism of SS-31 was simplified as “stabilizing cardiolipin.” However, Image 4 references a pivotal study by Mitchell et al. (2020) that revolutionized our understanding of the peptide’s mode of action.

The research reveals that SS-31 functions primarily as an electrostatic modulator.

  • Surface Potential ($\psi_s$): Mitochondrial membranes are highly anionic (negatively charged) due to the phosphate headgroups of cardiolipin. This negative charge attracts cations, including protons ($H^+$) and calcium ($Ca^{2+}$).
  • The Problem of Calcium: While calcium is a necessary signal, excessive accumulation in the mitochondria leads to “calcium overload,” triggering the opening of the Mitochondrial Permeability Transition Pore (mPTP) and initiating cell death (apoptosis/necrosis).
  • SS-31 Interaction: Being cationic (positively charged), SS-31 partitions into the interface of the membrane. The Mitchell study demonstrated that SS-31 downregulates the surface potential. By masking some of the negative charge, it reduces the electrostatic attraction for calcium, effectively shielding the mitochondria from calcium overload.5

Table 1: Biophysical Effects of SS-31 on Mitochondrial Membranes

Biophysical Property Effect of SS-31 Binding Biological Consequence
Surface Potential ($\psi_s$) Downregulated (Less Negative) Reduced accumulation of cationic toxins and Calcium ($Ca^{2+}$).5
Bilayer Thickness Decreased Altered lipid packing; facilitates protein-lipid interactions.
Membrane Capacitance Increased Enhanced ability to store potential energy across the membrane.6
Lipid Packing Increased Order Stabilization of membrane curvature; prevention of pore formation.

2.3 The “Bridge” Mechanism

Image 4 also visually depicts SS-31 interacting directly with the lipid bilayers. The peptide effectively acts as a bridge between the distinct environments of the lipid headgroups. By interacting with cardiolipin, SS-31 induces a structural change that mimics the presence of mature cardiolipin. In the context of Barth syndrome, where mature CL is missing, SS-31 acts as a “molecular prosthesis,” binding to the accumulated MLCL or remaining immature CL and forcing the membrane to adopt the necessary curvature for supercomplex assembly.7

This explains why the drug is effective in Barth syndrome despite not correcting the genetic defect (the TAZmutation). It does not fix the enzyme; it fixes the physics of the membrane environment that the enzyme failure disrupted.


Part III: The Clinical Odyssey – From Rejection to Approval

The path to the FDA approval of Forzinity (elamipretide) in September 2025 was neither linear nor assured. It represents one of the most contentious regulatory reviews in recent history, highlighting the tension between statistical rigidity and the desperate unmet needs of ultra-rare disease communities.

3.2 The CRL and the Rescue Strategy

In May 2025, the FDA issued a Complete Response Letter (CRL), rejecting the New Drug Application (NDA).9 The agency cited the data as “exploratory and uninterpretable,” a devastating blow to the Barth community.

However, Stealth BioTherapeutics, supported by patient advocacy groups like the Barth Syndrome Foundation, pivoted to a different analytical strategy. They focused on knee extensor muscle strength, a secondary endpoint in the original trial.

  • Muscle Strength Data: Unlike the 6MWT, which depends on volition and systemic energy, muscle strength measured by dynamometry is a more direct readout of mitochondrial function in the skeletal muscle.
  • The Finding: In the TAZPOWER trial, knee extensor strength improved by greater than 45% in treated patients.12 This improvement was objective and mechanistic, aligning with the drug’s known ability to restore ATP production.

3.3 The SPIBA-001 Natural History Comparison

To further bolster the case for efficacy, Stealth submitted data from SPIBA-001, a retrospective study. This study matched patients treated with elamipretide in the open-label extension against a matched cohort from a natural history registry (propensity score matching).13

  • Result: The comparison demonstrated that while untreated Barth patients experience a progressive decline in cardiac and muscle function, those on elamipretide showed stabilization or improvement over 192 weeks.15

On September 19, 2025, the FDA officially granted Accelerated Approval to Forzinity.1 The approval was based on the intermediate endpoint of knee extensor strength, with a requirement for a post-marketing confirmatory study.


Part IV: Ischemia-Reperfusion – The Preclinical Bedrock

While Barth syndrome provided the regulatory pathway, the foundational science of elamipretide was established in the context of Ischemia-Reperfusion Injury (IRI). Image 5 of the presentation references the seminal work by Zhao et al. (2004), published in the Journal of Biological Chemistry.

4.1 The Paradox of Reperfusion

IRI occurs when blood supply is restored to tissue after a period of deprivation (ischemia), such as after a heart attack or during organ transplantation. Paradoxically, the restoration of oxygen causes more damage than the ischemia itself. This “reperfusion injury” is driven by a burst of ROS generation from the mitochondria.

4.2 SS-31 as a Cristae Protectant

The Zhao study demonstrated that SS-31 is highly effective at mitigating this injury.

  • Infarct Size Reduction: As noted in the snippets, SS-31 treatment reduced myocardial infarct size by approximately 60% in isolated rat heart models and significantly in vivo.18
  • Mechanism: The presentation slide (Image 5) highlights “inhibit mitochondrial swelling.” During ischemia, the mitochondrial matrix swells, rupturing the outer membrane and releasing cytochrome c, which triggers apoptosis. SS-31 prevents this swelling. By stabilizing the cristae structure (the “cristae remodeling” effect), it prevents the mPTP from opening during the calcium rush of reperfusion.19

Image 5 also displays data regarding ATP recovery. In renal ischemia models, treatment with SS-31 led to a rapid recovery of ATP levels upon reperfusion. This energy is crucial for the renal tubular cells to repair their actin cytoskeleton and re-establish polarity, preventing the renal failure that typically follows ischemic insults.19


Part V: The Social Profit Pivot – Democratizing Bioenergetics

While the approval of Forzinity marks a triumph for pharmaceutical development, the presentation reveals a significant divergence in Dr. Hazel Szeto’s recent work. Image 7 introduces the Social Profit Network (SPN), a non-profit entity established by Dr. Szeto after leaving Weill Cornell Medicine in 2016.21

5.1 The Philosophy of Social Profit

The establishment of SPN appears to be a direct response to the limitations of the traditional pharmaceutical model, which Dr. Szeto has critiqued for its “one target, one disease” approach.

  • Limitations of Pharma: Developing Forzinity took 20 years and resulted in a drug priced at nearly $800,000 per year.23 While necessary for orphan diseases, this model is ill-suited for tackling broad, population-level health crises like aging, Alzheimer’s, and metabolic syndrome.
  • The SPN Model: SPN operates as a public charity. Its goal is to develop “rationally-designed natural supplements” and non-prescription interventions that can be accessed by the wider public to promote “healthy aging”.24 This represents a shift from curing rare disease to optimizing public health.

5.2 ReZilient: The Metabolic Supplement

Image 6 introduces ReZilient, the flagship product of this new philosophy. Described as a “special formulation of vitamins and supplements,” ReZilient is designed to support anaplerosis—the replenishing of TCA cycle intermediates.

Analysis of the Krebs Cycle Diagram (Image 6):

The slide features a detailed map of the TCA cycle, highlighting specific enzymes:

  • CS (Citrate Synthase)
  • IDH3 (Isocitrate Dehydrogenase)
  • OGDH (Oxoglutarate Dehydrogenase)
  • SCS (Succinyl-CoA Synthetase)
  • SDH (Succinate Dehydrogenase)
  • MDH2 (Malate Dehydrogenase)

The text emphasizes “building blocks for cell proliferation” and “ATP to support cell processes.” Based on the research snippets, ReZilient contains specific precursors to fuel this cycle:

  • Acetyl-L-Carnitine: Facilitates the transport of fatty acids into the mitochondria for beta-oxidation, feeding Acetyl-CoA into the cycle.
  • Alpha-Ketoglutarate (AKG): A direct intermediate in the TCA cycle. Supplementation with AKG can bypass upstream enzymatic bottlenecks and drive ATP production.
  • B-Vitamins: Crucial cofactors for the dehydrogenases (e.g., Thiamine for OGDH).

Insight: ReZilient represents a “substrate” approach to mitochondrial therapy. Whereas elamipretide (Forzinity) acts on the structure (the engine block), ReZilient acts on the fuel (the gasoline). Dr. Szeto’s pivot suggests she views these as complementary: structural repair is vital for severe disease, but metabolic fueling is the key to resilience in aging.


Part VI: The Next Frontier – Biotin-Conjugate Technology

Perhaps the most scientifically ambitious aspect of the Social Profit Network’s work is referenced in the patent literature discovered in the research snippets: the development of biotin-peptide conjugates.25

6.1 The Biotin Paradox

Biotin (Vitamin B7) is an essential cofactor for five carboxylase enzymes, including Pyruvate Carboxylase (PC) and Propionyl-CoA Carboxylase (PCC), which are critical for anaplerosis and energy production.

  • The Transport Problem: Biotin requires specific transporters (SMVT) to enter cells and mitochondria. Research has shown that in neurodegenerative conditions (like Alzheimer’s) and aging, these transporters may become dysfunctional or downregulated.27
  • Deficiency: This leads to a “functional deficiency” where biotin levels in the blood are normal, but the mitochondria in the brain are starving for it, leading to metabolic failure and myelin degeneration.

6.2 The Peptide Solution

The patents filed by the Social Profit Network (e.g., US 11,801,235) describe a technology that conjugates D-biotin to the same aromatic-cationic peptide backbone used in SS-31.25

  • Mechanism: Because the SS peptides (like SS-31) can penetrate the blood-brain barrier and enter mitochondria independently of transporters (driven by potential and lipid solubility), they can drag the biotin payload directly into the mitochondrial matrix.
  • Application: This “Trojan Horse” strategy is aimed at treating demyelinating diseases like Multiple Sclerosis (MS) and metabolic epilepsies where energy failure is a key driver. High-dose biotin has shown promise in MS trials but has struggled with consistency; targeted delivery could revolutionize this approach.29

Part VII: Reversing Aging – The Szeto-Liu Model

The final section of the presentation, captured in Images 8 and 9, focuses on the application of these technologies to the universal condition of aging.

7.1 Structural Remodeling

Image 8 presents striking electron microscopy (EM) data comparing mitochondria from young mice, old mice, and old mice treated with SS-31.

  • Young: Dense, tightly packed cristae.
  • Old: Swollen mitochondria with fragmented, vacuolated cristae (“donuts” or “onions”).
  • Old + SS-31: Remarkable restoration of cristae density and alignment.3

This visual evidence supports the Szeto-Liu Rejuvenation Model, which posits that age-related bioenergetic decline is not purely a result of DNA damage (as per the traditional free radical theory) but is a structural issue of the membrane lipids. By restoring the structure, function follows.

7.2 Systemic Rejuvenation

Image 9 summarizes the systemic effects of this remodeling. The slide lists:

  • “Remodels aged mitochondria in heart, kidney, and retina.”
  • “Improves skeletal muscle bioenergetics and exercise tolerance.”
  • “Reduces proton leak… reverses diastolic heart failure.”
  • “Restores cerebrovascular coupling and improves cognitive function.”

Deep Dive on Diastolic Heart Failure:

Diastolic dysfunction (stiffening of the heart) is a hallmark of cardiac aging. Research by Szeto and colleagues has shown that this is driven by proton leak. When the mitochondrial membrane is leaky, the heart burns more oxygen just to maintain the membrane potential, leaving less energy for relaxation (which is an ATP-dependent process). By plugging this leak (via cardiolipin stabilization), SS-31 allows the heart muscle to relax fully, curing the diastolic stiffness in animal models.31

Deep Dive on Vision:

The mention of “reverses visual decline” refers to Dry Age-Related Macular Degeneration (AMD). The retina has the highest density of mitochondria in the body. Clinical trials (ReNEW study) are currently investigating elamipretide for Dry AMD, with data suggesting that rescuing mitochondrial function in the retinal pigment epithelium can halt vision loss.33


Conclusion

The journey documented in this report—from the serendipitous discovery of a mitochondrial-targeting peptide in a frog skin analogue to the FDA approval of Forzinity—represents a paradigm shift in medicine. It marks the transition of mitochondrial medicine from a theoretical field to a clinical reality.

The approval of Forzinity validates the hypothesis that the physical properties of the inner mitochondrial membrane are a druggable target. It proves that by stabilizing cardiolipin, we can rescue bioenergetics even in the presence of severe genetic errors. The regulatory battles fought to achieve this approval have also reshaped the landscape for rare disease drug development, establishing the viability of intermediate endpoints like muscle strength when functional testing is ambiguous.

Simultaneously, the emergence of the Social Profit Network and the ReZilient supplement line suggests a future where bioenergetic support is not limited to rare genetic conditions. Dr. Szeto’s pivot to non-profit research and nutrient-based interventions indicates a belief that the “Silver Tsunami” of aging cannot be solved by high-priced orphan drugs alone. Instead, a dual approach is emerging: precision peptides for the critically ill, and rationally designed metabolic support for the aging population.

The integration of these two paths—the high-science biophysics of elamipretide and the broad-access philosophy of Social Profit—defines the current state of the art in cellular energy medicine. As research into biotin conjugates and other “second-generation” compounds matures, we may stand on the precipice of a new era in treating the fundamental energy crisis that underlies both rare disease and the aging process itself.


Appendix: Summary of Key Therapeutic Agents

Table 2: Comparison of Elamipretide (Forzinity) and ReZilient

Feature Forzinity (Elamipretide / SS-31) ReZilient (Supplement Formulation)
Status FDA Approved (Sept 2025) Available Dietary Supplement
Indication Barth Syndrome (Orphan Disease) Healthy Aging, Cognitive Support
Mechanism Biophysical: Binds CL, stabilizes membrane, reduces electrostatic potential. Biochemical: Provides TCA cycle intermediates (Anaplerosis) and cofactors.
Delivery Subcutaneous Injection Oral Capsule
Target Population ~150 patients in USA (Barth Syndrome) General Aging Population
Developer Stealth BioTherapeutics Social Profit Network
Cost ~$800,000 / year 23 Consumer Market Pricing

Table 3: Key Research Milestones

Year Milestone Key Finding/Event Source
2004 Zhao et al. First paper describing SS-31’s ability to enter mitochondria and prevent ischemic injury. 19
2018 Szeto & Liu Publication of the “Rejuvenation Model” showing EM remodeling of aged mitochondria. 3
2020 Mitchell et al. Biophysical study proving SS-31 works via electrostatic modulation of surface potential. 5
2025 TAZPOWER/SPIBA FDA Approval based on Knee Extensor Strength and Natural History data. 1
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True, and good advice.

Also accurate.

I think for us, the most relevant part of the question would be which gray market vendor to choose, because the manufacturers tend to limit their business to middlemen (B2B), or they’re selling raw powder to finishers who prepare the vials.

It has gotten a little more difficult to import directly with the demise of QSC [edit: still alive, but hanging on by a thread], SSA, and SRY, but others are filling the gaps. Yes, meso-rx has good source discussions. WWB (Wuhan Wansheng Biotech) is reliable.

However, I would avoid directly importing from China because customs clearance has become less certain, and this time of year you may wait weeks even if it does clear. In addition, quality has been hit or miss, so you would definitely have to test.

Rather, I would reach out to some of the lesser known domestic importers who only operate on Discord and Telegram. Their markups are much less than others (50-100%), and they do testing. They live or die by their reputations, so quality and service tend to be very high. I can DM you some later - they don’t like public posts.

Another alternative is www.nexaph.com . Chinese, has a US warehouse, prices are about 2x, they are regularly independently tested by user groups. Service is excellent. pgpmemberpass is another good one but the selection is limited.

Nexaph has 300mg for $425 right now. That’s a great domestic price. I’d just order that today and be done with it.

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FYI, kit of 25mg pgb for $215… and the 25 was tested to be 30

Sincerely,
Grasshopper :slight_smile:

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I really like this one and will be doing another cycle next week.

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Pgb has dropped prices! Nice find

I wonder who told you about pgb. :thinking::joy:

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I would price match for that volume.

@AgentSmith :slight_smile: I was on the DL by calling myself grasshopper :slight_smile:

I might pull the trigger on this because a researcher using it on herself gives me confidence about safety.

I see she uses it orally. Can we buy any ol’ peptide and use it sub q or orally? What do we mix it with if we want to use it in an oral spray as she does

Rapadmin said
“I just asked Hazel about sources and dosing. She looks to be in her mid 60s, and she does 5mg daily sublingually via a little spray bottle. She recommended that approach

Yes, you’re very stealthy and I’m truly borderline senile. Haha

I have never bothered to investigate sublingual dosing so I’ll leave that discussion to someone more knowledgeable. I know injecting works and I have never wanted to gamble on bioavailability.

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I’m guessing sublingual will bypass the digestive track. With a molecular weight of 720 Da, you can probably also use the spray nasally too.

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@qBx123Yk What would you mix the peptide with for oral.

And @AgentSmith that makes sense… but I guess I wonder about oral for no other reason than thinking the researcher knows something I don’t? Ha, maybe she is simply afraid of needles :slight_smile:

And maybe, just a guess, you can use less if injecting it because all of it gets absorbed? Maybe cost of the this peptide is of no concern to her… thoughts?

I assume saline if a nasal spray (I realize the stuff is tested, but out of an abundance of caution, do I have to worry about the sterility for peptides in my nose… brain connection and all?) I doubt I’d do this but am curious.

My best guess is saline. Bac water would also work technically, but maybe with an unpleasant taste. Frankly, I would stick with injections.

Thankfully, you can sterilize your solution (or greatly reduce bacterial burden) using a PES filter, 0.22um. Very easy to do, and you can get 100 filters for about 0.75$ a piece.

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I did a Google Gemini Deep Research prompt on the issue of comparing the bioavailability of sublingual vs. injection use of SS31. It doesn’t sound too good:

Conclusion and Strategic Outlook

This exhaustive analysis of the bioavailability of SS-31 (elamipretide) leads to three definitive conclusions regarding the comparison between sublingual and injectable administration:

  1. Subcutaneous Injection is the Uncontested Clinical Standard:With an absolute bioavailability of 92%, subcutaneous administration ensures that the entire dose is available to therapeutic targets. It provides the high peak plasma concentrations (Cmax) necessary to drive the peptide into the mitochondrial matrix against concentration gradients. The linearity and predictability of SC dosing are non-negotiable for treating serious mitochondrial cardiomyopathies and myopathies.
  2. Sublingual Delivery is Currently Ineffective and Economically Viable:There is no evidence in the public domain—clinical or preclinical—to support the efficacy of simple sublingual formulations of SS-31. The peptide’s physicochemical properties (hydrophilicity, cationic charge, molecular weight) create a “permeability mismatch” with the sublingual mucosa, likely resulting in bioavailability of <1-5%. Achieving therapeutic equivalence via this route would require massive, cost-prohibitive doses (e.g., >700 mg), and even then, variability would be high.
  3. The “Next-Generation” Confirmation:The development trajectory of SBT-272 (bevemipretide) serves as a powerful confirmation of SS-31’s limitations. The fact that a molecule specifically engineered for better membrane permeability and oral absorption still faced challenges in human oral trials (necessitating a pivot to SC) strongly suggests that “naked” peptide delivery via mucosal routes is a failed strategy for this chemical class.

Future Outlook:

For patients seeking non-invasive alternatives, the future lies not in “biohacking” with sublingual drops of generic peptides, but in advanced pharmaceutical engineering. Mucoadhesive chitosan nanoparticles, permeation-enhanced liposomes, and microneedle patches represent the only scientifically plausible pathways to render non-invasive SS-31 therapy a clinical reality. Until such technologies are validated in Phase 1 trials, subcutaneous injection remains the only route capable of delivering the promise of mitochondrial restoration.

Full analysis here: https://gemini.google.com/share/1f953caf870f

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