#1

Hi,
I am asking out if curiosity as I mainly see low carb or Attia style comments when it comes to food.
I have been WFPB since 1995. Anyone else plant based/vegan or pescetarian perhaps?

To me, the science looks pretty solid that this is the best route.

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#2

I have been vegetarian since 1983 and vegan since 1986. Originally purely for ethical reasons but I’ll take any longevity benefits as a bonus.

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#3

I tend to agree that the science suggests vegetarian/pescaterian diets are likely the best longevity diets - but thats just my reading of the science. I know we have people here who would disagree. And we try not to get into too many debates here about diet - as the science is far from perfect on the nutritional side of things since most of it is observational and self-report data.

I’m mostly vegetables and fish… and it seems to work for me. I’m also not militant about it… occasionally I’ll have a hamburger with friends…

And I think many of the longevity researchers seem to tend this way:

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#4

Tried it 6 months, didnt sit to well with me

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#5

I am not a vegetarian, but I do have a question for those who are. What are the most calorie dense whole plant foods? I am trying to ingest 4000 to 5000 calories a day with a protein target of 200 grams a day. I find it difficult even with animal products included. My wife grows kale which is wonderful, but I would need to eat 40 lbs of it per day. My neighbor grows fantastic turnips which have more calories. Is rice considered a whole plant food? Looking at the numbers I think it would be almost impossible to be overweight on a whole plant diet. The most calorie dense foods are refined carbs and fats. Eliminate most of those from the diet and presto–caloric restriction! So the whole plant diet plus perhaps some salmon seems great if one can maintain muscle and bone mass.

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#6

I like lentils… reasonably calorie dense. Others here: https://www.gardeningchannel.com/highest-calorie-vegetables-to-grow/

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#7

Thanks! It looks like chickpeas are the winner at 729 cal per cup. I like hummus.

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#8

Yes, I’ve been vegan for the past 11 years after switching at age 26 in effort to avoid heart disease and other problems in my family. It’s working out well for me so I see no reason not to continue.

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#9

I’ve been a vegetarian (pescatarian) for almost 40 years. It works well for me.

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#10

Might be helpful to look into the practices of some of these athletes:

“The five-time world championship participant in power sports is one of the best-known vegan athletes and has been eating exclusively a plant-based diet since 2011. Patrik Baboumian refutes the claim of many that vegan nutrition and power sports do not go together, because he himself feels really good and his performance has not decreased.”

“Rather unknown in this country, but a star in weightlifting. Kendrick Farris has been vegan since 2014 and is proof that a plant-based diet and top performance in weightlifting are not mutually exclusive. In 2016, two years after changing his diet, he broke the former world record at the Olympic qualifiers and lifted 377 kilograms.”

Other vegans athletes that you might want to look into:

  • Venus and Serena Williams
  • Novak Djokovic
  • Carl Lewis (became the world fastest man back in the day while vegan)

And it works in insurance sports too:

“Ultrarunner Scott Jurek proves that you don’t need meat or dairy to excel in athletic performance.

He ran the entire length of the Appalachian Trail in a record-setting 46 days, eight hours and seven minutes.

He’s also won the 135-mile Badwater Ultramarathon, the “world’s toughest foot race,” twice; the 153-mile long Spartathlon in Greece three consecutive times.

Not to mention that he’s taken first place in just about all the ultrarunning world’s most high-profile races. All whilst abstaining from animal products!”

Btw, I of course know that humans are different in many, many regards from the other non-human great apes, but it fascinated me as a kid that Gorillas, the “body builder” of the apes, are vegans (+ some insects).

https://www.worldwildlife.org/stories/what-do-gorillas-eat-and-other-gorilla-facts#:~:text=Gorillas%20stick%20to%20a%20mainly,nests%20to%20eat%20the%20larvae.

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#11

You could also look at some of Bryan Johnson’s Blueprint meals and scale the volumes up. Think I recall he has quite ok protein macro ratios.

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#12

I usually get compliments about my skin, which I attribute to being a long time vegetarian. Yesterday, I had a colonoscopy done; the previous one was 14 years ago. I was not sedated and was able to watch the process on the screen. The doctor asked me if I was a vegetarian and commented that my colon color looked very healthy and young for my age. I think, the right diet helps to slow aging inside and out.

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#13

Nuts are … ————————————

#14

I have to laugh at posts like this. Just imagine how long the list would be if you included every meat eating elite athlete. Every single ultra elite athlete, (e.g. Jordan, Ali, Bolt, Lasha, Merckx, Pele, Kipchoge etc) were omnivores.

Btw, Carl Lewis didn’t go vegan until the 90s by which time he’d already won 6 Olympic gold medalists and Kendrick Farris never got within 20kg of a World record (snatch, clean or total).

I think the methionine restriction studies are compelling though I still get most of my protein from animal sources (collagen). Arguing about diet is like arguing about religion, a complete waste of time because no one ever changes their mind.

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#15

I should apologize for derailing this thread which was supposed to be about whole plant based diets and the advantages. I looked up Kendrick Farris and he is an impressive athlete. He does mention eating veg. Lasagna though. If refined carbs are allowed it is a bit easier to get the calories up. Same thing if eggs or dairy are allowed. The advantages of whole plant foods are numerous. There a bunch of threads on bodybuilding forums about getting adequate protein while vegetarian. Paying attention to the individual amino acids is important, and a lot of these guys seem to use whey protein supplements.

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#17

I kinda suspected high level athletes must be ingesting a bunch of calories somehow. The whole plant diet seems ideal for longevity if followed strictly. We have all met an insufferable twinkies, chips, and oreos vegetarian. I guess whole means nothing smaller than a pea goes in the pie hole. So chickpeas are allowed, but no hummus, and no bread to spread the hummus on anyway. No peanut butter, oatmeal, or pasta. Lots of whole and filling vegetables. This may be the only diet that fills all nutritional requirements, is calorie deficit, and keeps hunger at bay. Hungry? Eat 5 more pounds of cauliflower and you won’t be. Jason Fung is big on fasting, but fasting can be tough for a lot of people. We would all like to be more insulin sensitive, and that means caloric restriction. After I meet my training goals, I intend to try whole plant for a couple weeks. I don’t think I will ever be full time whole plant, but a couple months out of the year seems like a good idea.

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#18

I really don’t understand above @Maveric78

And to be honest I don’t feel in this specific instance that you with such statements approached things in a constructive way.

Help me understand where I (or others) did anything(s) wrong

  1. A member (@Victoria24) creates a new topic and clearly states in both (a) the title of the topic ”How many are whole food plant based for longevity?” and (b) in the topic’s introductory post ”Anyone else plant based/vegan or pescetarian perhaps?” that she is creating a space to talk about plant based/vegan and pescatarian diets

  2. Another member (@Rayk) asked questions ” I am not a vegetarian, but I do have a question….” that (a) is in the scope of the topic his question was posted under and (b) seems coming from a place of wanted to look into and understand something that he was not sure if possible/feasible (high calories and protein on plant based diets)

  3. A third member (@Neo), takes time to write out an answer, provide avenues that @Rayk could take to perhaps learn more about his questions - entire introduction to my post was ”Might be helpful to look into the practices of some of these athletes”

  4. The member who asked the question (@Rayk) gives the response a heart :heart: label

Above seems to me like a great way for this overall community to work and operate:

  • someone creates a topic of general scope
  • anyone interested in that topic can read and if they want engage (staying roughly within the topic scope)
  • members can crowdsource input from other members on questions they have relating to the topic that they have
  • other members can volunteer their time to see if they perhaps can try to help others

Is above a ok description how things can work well here on the site? If not what is bad? If so, was there anything done wrong vis as vis that description?

—

Note:

I did not say that I believe that plant based is best for high calorie/high protein diets (which I don’t)

I never said I was vegan (which I am not)

I just

  • heard a question “is it possible”
  • thought one way to figure that out COULD be too looks into people who must have given it a lot of thought - with teams around them with a lot of knowledge - who I believe professional athletes are
  • tried to provide some sources of such people he could look into more research (several have opened restaurants and at least one has written a book)

—-

With regards to “Arguing about diet is like arguing about religion, a complete waste of time because no one ever changes their mind.”

A1. Personally that has really not been the case. I have for instance for multi-year period been each of a carnivore, vegan, vegetarian, pescatarian and pescavegan.

A2. Another example is that I am currently experimenting with higher protein than I believed was optimal just a year ago (partially because of arguments people have made in this forum and partially because of sources on this forum that people have pointed too)

B. From this sub-topic on the site (that people have selected into) others seem to also have changed their minds on diets and the very question from @Rayk was from a non-vegetarian about potentially eating more vegetarian

—-

Finally, learning if X is possible is very different vs teasing out whether Y is better than Z.

For instance, human civilization knew it was possible to fly across the Atlantic when Charles Lindbergh finished the first flight, to land on the moon when… and so on.

To get a sense for whether Y may be better than Z requires (outside of math/physics types of contexts) sample sizes and statistics.

The examples of the athletes I pointed to were whether it may be possible. I did not intend to say it was better.

Please do let me know if I’m misunderstanding how this site works and what scope of questions and answers are suitable for this specific topic and/or if there is anything else I did wrong.

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#19

Based on the theory that food is medicine, I’m a happy vegetarian. Since switching from a Mediterranean Diet, which included chicken and fish, my numbers have risen dramatically. I am not exaggerating when I say it saved my life.

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#20

Hi. I created this thread because I was curious how many of us here have chosen this way of eating for longevity.
I tried to phrase it carefully so I would not provoke a debate about whether or not it is the right way.
:carrot::smiley:

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#21

Well, vegetarians do fart more and pollute the atmosphere. :sweat_smile:

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