DrT
#346
That was my experience, too. The test in Australia is geared towards bipolar patients who have been prescribed high doses of lithium.
2 Likes
Did it help with sleep? I see Life Extension has a 1 mg lithium oratate.
1 Like
Curious
#348
Lithium at low doses, did not improve my sleep āonlyā my mood and psychological wellbeing. The effects have been dose-dependent up to 10 mg/day. 2Ć5 mg.
4 Likes
Agetron
#349
Sounds good ā¦ and maybe now neurological health too. As low lithium may be related to alzheimers.
Recent studies in mice and human brain tissue suggest that loss of naturally occurring brain lithium is a potential early driver of Alzheimerās disease (AD), leading to inflammation, amyloid plaques, neurofibrillary tangles, and accelerated memory decline.
In experiments, restoring lithium levels through supplements reversed these neurological and cognitive deficits in mice.
6 Likes
LukeMV
#350
Good new article from Eric Topol here
9 Likes
I am a huge fan of lithium orotate. It is one of the few supplements that I take that has a noticeable subjective effect. I am talking about the mental effects. It took several weeks of dosages of 10 mg (elemental) lithium orotate before I noticed the effects.
If coffee makes you cranky, if you are naturally short-tempered, if you are prone to road rage, etc., lithium orotate is your friend.
All of the other effects are a bonus.
There is little doubt that lithium orotate is the form most people should take.
āWhen LiO was administered to adult 3xTg mice, the physiological dose almost completely prevented AĪ² plaque deposition and phospho-tau accumulation; by contrast, administration of LiC or the sodium orotate control had no significant effect.ā
āLiO, but not LiC, increased the expression of the synaptic marker PSD-95ā
"LiO shows reduced amyloid sequestration relative to LiC and more effectively elevates non-plaque Li in the brain.
āLiO also reduced the AĪ² plaque burden by about 70% in older J20 mice with abundant and widespread AĪ² deposition (Fig. 5e). Thus, LiO is highly effective at reducing AĪ² deposition and phospho-tau accumulation.ā
āThe effects of LiO on genes involved in learning and memory prompted us to explore cognitive function in 3xTg mice, which show memory loss relative to wild-type mice (Fig. 5g). LiO at the lowest dose (4.3 Ī¼Eq lā1) almost completely reversed the memory loss, whereas LiC and the sodium orotate control did not show significant effects.ā
Lithium orotate and not lithium carbonate.
etc.
etc.
6 Likes
adssx
#352
His conclusion:
If lithium orotate does work, we donāt know the right or optimal dose. Even 10 mg would be a huge dropdown from the usual dose for lithium carbonate, which for BD in adults is between 600 to 1,800 mg/day. The amount of elemental lithium in lithium orotate is approximately 1/5th of lithium carbonate. So doses of orotate between 5 and 10 mg may be insufficient to achieve the effect (10 mg of lithium orotate is equivalent to about 0.4mg of elemental lithium).
As I previously discussed with p-tau217 and other blood markers, along with pace of aging brain clocks (using proteomics), it would be straightforward to do a randomized trial and see whether these surrogate metrics are favorably modulated by lithium orotate versus placebo. We hope to initiate such a randomized trial in the near future that would help illuminate whether low dose lithium orotate has efficacy in people.
Of course, everyone here taking lithium knows that even 1 mg is enough to feel the benefits.
7 Likes
The target is gsk3 whilst missing the SLC13A2 and SLC13a3 transports.
amuser
#354
Took 5mg of Doublewood lithium for a couple of months, noticedā¦absolutely no effect.
1 Like
Cāmon - it cleared any tau and amyloid tangles, you now have a crystal clear brain, you can shine a light through, brain will last you in tip top shape for the next 150 years 
- or at least thatās the idea. Maybe there are neurological benefits not connected with mood which you simply donāt perceive, but lithium is diligently but very quietly working in the background assuring a luminous future.
Thereās always a cycle around any new (or renewed) molecule, with outsize hope attached. Right now lithium is having its moment. All supplement makers are rushing to cash in. Then the hype dies down, and itās on to the next one. I donāt know if it measurably clears out any brain plaque, but at least it measurably clears out your wallet. Same as it ever was.
3 Likes
Nlo
#356
While technically correct, I think the wording in that conclusion may be confusing to some people.
Each 100 mgs of Lithium Carbonate contains about 18.8 mgs of elemental lithium. That means that there is about 28 mgs of elemental lithium in Lithium Carbonate 150 mgs.
If someone is taking a relatively realistic dose of 900 mgs per day of lithium carbonate for BAD, they are only getting 169 actual mgs of elemental lithium.
Most Lithium Orotate contains 3.86 mgs of elemental lithium per 100 mg.
18.8/3.86 = 0.20 So yes, lithium orotate does contain only about 20% as much elemental lithium as lithium carbonate, as he says.
My beef is that it kinda sounded like he was saying that bipolar patients were taking 600 to 1800 of elemental lithium, so I wanted to point out that it is much lower, in case someone is reading too quickly.
Also, although a recent study cited above shows lithium orotate as the superior, effective form to protect against dementia, lithium carbonate is also thought to provide some protection.
4 Likes
amuser
#357
In fact, most capsules of lithium orotate are labeled as mg of elemental lithium. Itās strange that the author of the article misunderstood this and assumed people are taking truly homeopathic doses. A large part of the confusion probably stems from how prescription lithium is stated in mg of lithium carbonate while supplements are almost always in terms of elemental lithium (regardless of carrier).
8 Likes
adssx
#359
I remember reading this series of articles back then, and everything was interesting until the lithium hypothesis, which is total BS, easily debunkable: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/7iAABhWpcGeP5e6SB/it-s-probably-not-lithium
2 Likes
LukeMV
#360
Best article yet on the subject in my opinion. He gives a very specific formula on what he guesses would be the best dosages in humans based on the current evidence
Spoiler: he is 70kg and says 0.79mg matches the mouse equivalent dose, but 5mg would probably be safe too.
https://x.com/therealryc/status/1954941838634459296?s=46
5 Likes
cl-user
#361
Very interesting article. That said he says 0.79mg of LiO which is 33.9Āµg (0.034mg) of elemental Li.
Thatās about 30 times less than the capsule of 1mg of elemental Li as Lithium Orotate I take!
5 Likes
Shady
#362
Lithium has always been intriguing and on my watch list. Decided to give it a try. Started 1mg LO caps last night. Pure Encapsulations. May try a bit higher dose but not planning anything over 2-3mg per day.
2 Likes
Curious
#363
Taurine might raise the amount of lithium in the body, which people who take a lot of it should be aware of. Also, caffeine can have the opposite effect. We might not feel any difference in either case. However, I believe it is beneficial to learn about these interactions.
TAURINE: Overview, Uses, Side Effects, Precautions, Interactions, Dosing and Reviews
Sudden Reduction in Caffeine Intake Increases Serum Lithium Concentration to Supratherapeutic Level: A Case Report
4 Likes
Agetron
#364
Excellent finds.
Lithium interacts with TAURINE
Taurine might slow down how quickly lithium is flushed out of the body. This could increase levels of lithium that stay in the body.
Which is probably fine at 5 mg to 10 mg dosing.
As to caffeine. I take lithium at bedtimeā¦ hours past my last cup of Joe.
2 Likes
Yes, good info. And a reminder - as has been discussed many times, SGLT2i agents tend to flush lithium out of the system, while telmisartan spares it. Ultimately, if one is using a lot of these cross acting agents, itās hard to know where you individually might end up. Best to test your levels rather than only speculate.
3 Likes
