I’m one of them. Before putting my 16 yr old on Rapa, he’s been on the Sinclair’s protocol for a while, and there were noticeable improvements, specially early on. Before NMN and TMG, and the whole alphabet soup, he was very lethargic. He didn’t want to play. The hip dysplasia was getting worse. Since on the protocol, he improved in two weeks. It was night and day. We stared him on Rapa, 1.5 yrs ago. He is still on the protocol but not daily. He takes a huge amount of supplements, and eats only grassfed meat and organic veggies, but he was on that diet before and still became lethargic and would not run and play as he does today. I have to go by my experience. This dog wouldn’t be here today without that protocol and Rapa. And no heart, liver, or kidney issues either. He also takes acarbose daily. He’s the reason I got a second job. Lol.
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Good job on taking care of your dog so well! I’m glad he is doing well on this.
We have a cat that we want to give the opposite therapy to right now … any suggestions?
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ng0rge
#43
Absolutely! The 2 that immediately come to mind here, are NMN and Resveratrol. I think there would be much agreement that they were over-hyped but when people start acting like they are worthless substances or “scam products”, I personally doubt it. Look at the huge number of studies. As you say, some massively positive and others not. The damning evidence for resveratrol, as pointed out by @RapAdmin above in the video with Rich Miller and Peter Attia is that Sinclair’s original mouse study was deeply flawed - and subsequently there were many pro and con studies. But there were enough positive studies (we’re talking about a huge number), that I can’t believe that they were all flawed or funded by a Sinclair company. It’s a polyphenol, for god’s sake, should that cast doubt on all polyphenols - some people think so. Ultimately, you have to sift through all the studies (with a juandiced eye in my case) and decide what makes the most sense to you.
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ng0rge
#44
That sounds like you want to kill’em! 
the opposite of good therapy is bad therapy…
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Exactly … our cat needs to be have some pro-aging therapy …
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ng0rge
#46
Remember. the first rule is…do no harm
Edit: What’d he do? Pee on the rug? I’m often inclined to do that with @AnUser (re: his avatar 
) Nevermind…he changed his avatar…used to be the “Dude” from Big Lebowski
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DrFranser,
Poor kitty. Lol.
My neighbor has a kitty named Bart. She rolls her eyes when I ask about him. He wakes her up every night and kicks her out of her bed. He’s super smart, and able to solve puzzles that some of my dogs can’t handle. He’s the cutest pain in the rear end. I adopt seniors only, dogs no one else wants, but the cost of properly caring for them is soooo much. I just bought half a cow and hope that will help decrease the cost associated with grassfed dog food. How old is your furbaby? Old enough for rapa? I know he/she wants to be on rapa really bad to continue to brighten your day and bring more “excitement” into your life.
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I personally will not recommend resveratrol to patients. The NMN or NR is a tougher call. The main issue is cost. The walking study with NMN https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36482258/ is at least interesting. For me personally, I subjectively feel better with 1000 mg of NMN in the morning. If I fail to time manage and get my AM supplements, the only item I’ll grab on my way to the ER is NMN. Probably placebo, but I have a bunch of other things I take each morning, and I don’t seek those at all.
I continue to have my scientist hat on, with looking at standard approaches of thinking anything beneficial should be consistent, work in all people and yield a consistent result such that we can have high level evidence and certainty. The other reality, is that there are a diverse range of experiences and responses, even for objective things like blood pressure control or glycemic control with medications.
The more time in clinical medicine - the more understanding, if one listens to their patients, is the incredible diversity of responses. If any of this actually heads toward hard outcomes, that is a worry, as our scientific approach looks at average outcomes, not individual outcomes. This works in genetically identical mice … but that isn’t the situation in clinical medicine with humans.
The problem with polyphenol supplementation, or supplementation of anything for that matter, is that you have to be pretty darn sure you have the active ingredient. We’ve seen the mess with Vitamin A for example - thinking it was good in isolation - just not the active ingredient. Get your polyphenols from real food … not in a capsule. If you get it in a capsule, make sure you are also getting it in foods.
The highest risk people are those who have bad diets, and think the supplements fix this. If you want to supplement - go to it (I do), but make sure your nutrition is rock solid and don’t rely on the supplements as your get out of jail card. They will be a fail for sure.
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So … the cat … a bengal, female, the last of our 3 cats that we brought with us from Australia, when we moved back to the U.S. in 2017 after 10 years there. Surprisingly no quarantine.
The other 2 cats have succumb.
She is by far the most annoying, and will probably live forever. We’ve recently got her addicted to screentime on the iPhone looking at videos of squirrels and the like … she is most confused when she digs under the phone and bites that nothing is accomplished.
Her brother was amazing - we lost him a few months ago. Very sad, especially for my wife who loved him so much. He was dog like in much of his behavior. We probably should have given him rapamycin and his sister arsenic.
The pets are a great topic … we’ve got a dog that is only 18 months that we are also needing an anti-rapamycin medication for.
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Solution: Put the dog and cat together in a locked room and put them on a caloric-restricted diet. Results may vary depending on size of animals.
Think of it as a longevity experiment.
(Disclaimer: This answer is for entertainment purposes only. Do not attempt in real life.)
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I can only submit 1 like on this comment. I want to provide several!
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ng0rge
#52
Personally, I do too. I’ve cycled on and off a number of times and now I’m down to 500 mg, but placebo or not…it works for me. It’s a lot easier to pay attention to your own body and make a judgement. Everyone’s different, so to tell someone else what to do (your job) must be hard. And resveratrol is something that I don’t feel at all (cycling on and off).
And talk about “diverse range of experiences”, just look at this forum. Some people swear by something and how much it improved their blood tests or whatever, and others say it was a huge waste of money. And they’re probably both right.
“our scientific approach looks at average outcomes, not individual outcomes.”
This is a huge hurdle for the individual. Even when I plug my blood measures into the Levine Phenotypic Age calculator and it tells me that my BioAge is 10 years younger than my 70 chronological age - they have some averages figures that tell them what 70 should look like -in America that might be some overweight guy on a couch somewhere with a bad diet. Should I really feel that proud that I’m healthier than he is(by 10 years)?
My nutrition is rock solid but I still take supplements (and believe that they help, even polyphenols). And on active ingredients - if it’s 3rd party tested and has a COA and the company has a top notch reputation - I don’t worry. There’s a lot of information out there on the web and if you know how to filter it - that’s the key.
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ng0rge
#53
Hope this works for me and @AnUser should outlive us all!
You must be a very caring person 
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Neo
#54
@DrFraser and @ng0rge have you tested for your NAD+ levels, if what test level are you at where you feel the benefits?
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AnUser
#55
NMN was placebo city for me. I felt full of energy after taking it every day but it stopped working after awhile. Still have lots left but I haven’t touched it for years.
100 g of NMN costs $150 at ND.
365 tablets of enteric coated NMN at 125 mg costs $100:
The enteric coated NMN was what I used, and I still have some left over I might try again if it’s safe.
So I don’t think it’s that expensive anymore, compared to other drugs or supplements people take.
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Arhu
#56
The problem with all nmn and nr studies is that they only compare to placebo but not dirt cheap nicotinamide or nicotinic acid …
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Nature Link
The issue is whether niacin ends up increasing cardiovascular events in excess. Then furthermore, is NMN 1000 mg of NR in similar doses an “excess.”
I’m still seeing bulk supplements willing to produce NMN … That is the most cost effective route, with their powder that I’ve found. https://www.bulksupplements.com/products/nicotinamide-mononucleotide-nmn?variant=32133357699183
100 grams for $65
In regard to @Neo on the NAD+ levels - I’ve not tested those, as I’m not sure what my action would be if adequate or inadequate. Given that I take a gram of NMN daily.
This is the same question I have on testing patient’s stool microbiome - rarely indicated … the advice remains the same. Improve diet in specific ways, and the value of the testing is almost nill. Looking at whether there is altered gut permeability and things there are antibodies to is pretty useful, as I have action points on those. Just don’t know what I’d do with a result on NAD being adequate or inadequate.
Same discussion I have with ER patients on testing them for flu or covid - unless high risk for deterioration with covid - it is spending money for no change in treatment. So I don’t see a specific reason to test for NAD+ in someone already supplementing.
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ng0rge
#58
I haven’t but it would be a good idea. I live in Mexico so, out of the ordinary tests are hard to come by. It’s why I take a smaller dose and go by feel. I use sublingual powder because getting it directly into the bloodstream is best. But you can only absorb very small doses that way. I don’t want to have to keep repeating that all day so I usually do sublingual once and also take one liposomal capsule.
https://renuebyscience.com/product/lipo-nmn-powdered-liposomal-nmn2/
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Fascinating that you are in Mexico. One of our favorite places to visit. The people are uniformly great and optimistic - at least in the tourist area. We’ve been other places, which I won’t mention, that we have been disappointed. Puerto Vallarta is a remarkable destination.
The link you’ve supplied is really interesting - this is certainly a cost effective option and a group that I need to look into further.
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Neo
#60
Think it would be similar to eg with Apo B management and increasing or decreasing dosing/combinations of those. If you are very high on an NAD+ test, you could consider lowering your 1g NMD dose and perhaps vise vers ( of course with risks considerations taking into account)
