#142

I have been using 8 x 54-watt lamps, deep red 660 and near-infrared 850nm, in a tanning bed arraignment, (because I got tired of standing) and a 45-watt flat panel for my head.
I do front and back for 20 to 30 minutes most days and have been doing this for several months.
If there are any benefits, they are not noticeable, nor do I have any way to associate the results with any biomarkers. The total cost was less than a year’s supply of many of my supplements and if the lights last as long as claimed, it will be very cheap on a yearly basis.
I do enjoy doing it and have become addicted to using red light therapy, but this may be just a placebo effect.

If anyone has any proof red light therapy improved their biomarkers, in any way, please share.
Which markers and what improved?

1 Like
#143

FWIW, Here is what I use: MitoRedLight MitoPro 300 (a desktop lamp)
Specs:
LED Peak Wavelengths: 630nm, 660nm, 830nm, 850nm
*Irradiance at 6 Inches (mW/cm2): >130mW/cm2
**Fluence (Joules/cm2/minute): 2.7
Power Consumption: 90w

I believe the key is I put the lamp directly on my skin. I do have to move it around a little as the IR can create some heat in my flesh.

Sorry. I can’t provide proof that my joints don’t hurt, or that they used to do so. Perhaps it’s a placebo effect. I love a good placebo.

#144

Long before there were LEDs, lasers etc., people were using common incandescent infrared heat lamps for muscle aches and pains. Are you sure it’s not just the heating effect that is giving you relief?

#145

I can’t be sure or even confident of the reason. It would be an amazing effect of mere heat, but I’ll take it.

#146

@desertshores and @Joseph_Lavelle : I sometimes use heat pads (the small, very hot electric blanket) but the feeling seems very different to the LED. I again may be fooling myself, but the sensation is completely different, and suggests a somewhat different mechanism. Then again, it may all be placebo and as neither have produced measurable results in my physiology, maybe they are the same for what is important.

I’ve never tried a heating pad for hair growth. Perhaps a new market?….

1 Like
#148

@Joseph_Lavelle is right.

See article below about the importance of placing the light directly on the skin.

I own many red light devices and they’re either placed directly on the skin or very close to it. I’ve had good results from using these devices.

3 Likes
#149

@Kandice Thanks for this article. I did not know this. I was merely trying to reduce the distance between the lamp and my skin to minimize lost power.

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#151

I agree with the posts above. I am about a little over a month in. I have noticed that closer is better in terms of distance the lights are from your body/skin. The perceived and unmeasured benefits: I can get puffy under eyes (especially if I eat things I am sensitive to) these almost 100% go away; I’d say my skin is better- healthier looking, wife even commented; aches and pains are slightly reduced; hair seems thicker/fuller (again to the eye, not a hair analysis). I haven’t noticed better sleep even though some say they notice that. Like @desertshores I kinda look forward to my time under the lights. Meditate, listen to an audio book, etc @Ericross2 my eyes seemed to be getting worse too, then I added extra eye protection. I wear the tanning bed blockers provided with the lights plus my mountaineering glacier glasses and that seems to helps.

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#152

Thank you so much for your recomendations; I unfortunately see that they only ship in the Us ( so far ). Would you have any other brand to recommend ? I was particularly interested in the hat / pad one as it is multipurpose

#153

This is something I know about. The slide is misleading. The distance of the lamp to the skin has no bearing on how deep the photons go. The farther away the lamp the fewer photons per cm2 of skin. What this means is: The farther away the lamp you the more time you have to spend in front of it. Depending on what kind of focusing the lamp uses to concentrate the light beam will determine how much longer with increased distance you will have to spend in front of the lamp.
Many of the lamp suppliers will give you the figures for their lamps.

image

How long you need to spend in front of the lamps is highly debatable.

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#154

The distance from light issue is called diffusion, which, yes, we knew about that.

But, we didn’t know about reflection, which is another factor that reduces light further. Putting light directly on the skin eliminates reflection.

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#155

@eli You can order directly from the manufacturer. To be sure, you can email them and ask them if they ship products to your country.

https://www.dgyao.net/

2 Likes
#156

Dear Kandice, How can I know they are ultimate generation? Am particularly interested in the helmet ( which is also available on eBay and AliExpress - picture with their brand ?!- but not sure whether reliable to buy there …many thanks

Ps sorry wrote this before seeing your reply . Thanks again

#157

You still don’t know how long you need to use it. Some books on red light therapy suggest that direct contact and too long of exposure are counterproductive.

As I have posted before I have a red light “therapy” bed which I use every day. Based on the lamps I use and the quack that wrote the most popular book about Red Light Therapy on Amazon I expose each side of my body and the top of my head to 20 to 30 minutes most every day.

Every study I have read so far is highly flawed.

I use my red light “therapy” bed because I find it highly relaxing. Nothing so far has convinced me that it is of some huge benefit.
Personally, I don’t have any aches or pains in my joints or anywhere else for that matter, so I don’t know if it is good for that. And if it is, can you prove it is any better than common infrared incandescent heat lamps which have been used for over a century?
Once upon a time, they were highly touted for joint pain, sinus pain, etc. I am not convinced that specialized red light therapy is any better for joint, muscle pain, etc. It is probably just the latest iteration of an old treatment.

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#158

I don’t have any aches or pains in my joints, but didn’t before I started red light therapy which I do because of the copper atom in Cytochrome C Oxidase and the hypothesis that this drives the effect of R/IR therapy.

I think the argument that keeping the light close to the irradiated area will reduce light lost through reflection is a reasonable argument.

However, it is likely that this form of therapy as many forms (including exercise) has levels at which it does not do anything (time/intensity) levels at which it starts working and then a point at which it is overdoing it.

As much of this is like sunlight (without all the frequencies) it probably is not that easy to cause harm at the same level of intensity as sunlight. However, that depends upon things like how much the reflection is reduced and will vary from device to device.

I am currently running a number of things which have the potential to improve mitochondrial efficiency and I think I am achieving that (watching miniaturised hair follicles starting up again whilst keeping my acetyl-CoA levels and HDAC inhibitors at a lower dose than I have done.)

Sadly I don’t know which of the things I am doing that works, but I am not too bothered about that as yet.

The hair thing is quite interesting because you can see (in very small numbers and very slowly) very fine hairs starting that are vellus hairs, potentially very fine pigmented hairs starting, vellus hairs turning pigmented and hairs then getting gradually thicker (as the process of miniaturisation of the hair follicle reverses).

#159

Correct, we don’t know exactly how long we need to use red light to see benefits, as studies suggest that a range of total energy can be effective.

And yes, like everything else, too little does nothing, too much can be harmful.

I think the manufacturers recommended treatment time (which are based on studies) is a good starting point. All the devices I have come with timers and recommended treatment time and they’re good recommendations.

One can always modify the length of time based on user experience. For example, one way to tell if it’s too much light is the temperature. If it’s too warm, then the intensity may be too high.

For me personally, I don’t exceed 20 minutes per body part. I also adjust the length of time based on how strong the light is. For devices with weaker light, I do 20 minutes. For the stronger ones, I may do 15 or 10 minutes or use the pulse mode.

#160

Therein lies the problem. Many of us are adding variables almost daily without the means of actually measuring the results. Currently, I am taking many supplements based on experimental data that has been published.
In the case of red light therapy, I find the results hard to measure. I have been doing it for a long time hoping it has some mitochondrial rejuvenation effects which are hard to measure.

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#161

I really am not trying to be a contrarian. What I am really looking for is some way to measure the results. Since I am 82, I really don’t see any changes in my skin, which is already pretty good for an 82-year-old. As I said I enjoy the “therapy” but I do doubt it has any age-reversing effects. Maybe like rapamycin, it will slow down aging?

#162

I vary the variables, but I have worked through much of my life as a computer programmer. When debugging a system I may change a number of variables simultaneously, but as soon as you get a result then you can start refining it.

Hence I don’t really mind if I am doing a lot of things to get a result. I can continue the testing process and swap things in and out (whilst keeping detailed records).

As far as some of the things I do I have a dose dependent outcome which is really helpful. I know that things like menaquinone-7 give more cellular energy because of historic patterns of sleep disruption (and the papers). I can also fit in similar tests for things like Creatine and D-Ribose.

Synergistic effects will be harder to identify and I don’t expect to get everything tracked, but the improvements in terms of health are quite clear and make life quite a lot better more generally.

#163

Taking advantage of your knowledge: (and please forgive my lack of knowledge in this field) are you also a fan of sauna blankets and if yes, would you have a brand to recommend ? I understand the latter would use different types of light and is not firstly focused on healing but from a time efficiency point of view, would it make sense to (first ) invest in a infrared sauna blanket instead (which seem to have some neat infrared wavelengths ?)Thanks a lot