#70

See my post (#55) above in this thread… The data doesn’t support injecting klotho at the doses currently being used.

Yet many seem to be doing this… there is a facebook page of people reporting on how they dilute and inject klotho. I’m curious if they are sensing some dramatic effect and keep doing it?

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#71

You can’t measure Klotho accurately, currently. All research labs have in house assays that still cannot distinguish between wild type and KLVS type Klotho. Very frustrating for everyone as this would solve the dosing problem - if only you could measure levels with some level of confidence!
I would suggest that you pursue PF4 injections instead. Readily available and tested in people at ridiculously high doses (in a surgical setting) for 20+ yrs. Since it is the main mediator of Klotho - it seems like a no brainer (pun intended!)
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06436-3
https://www.nia.nih.gov/news/blood-clotting-protein-young-mice-may-rejuvenate-older-mice-brains

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#72

No risk of causing an embolism?

#73

How do you define “low dose” here?

#74

Dosing that everyone in the klotho group on fb is .5pg per day.
I have been taking it for 3 years but there are others who have taken it longer.

#75

So given that normal serum levels are ~700 pg/mL, taking 0.5 pg would be homeopathic.

I’ve been doing 1 mcg/day, which is probably homeopathic also. I see another group apart from Bucky putting their dosing in at 500 mcg/day, 3 times/week. Klotho 10mg Lyophilized Powder w/ LS Saline | Celia Health

Unless my math is wrong - the amount in the vials with Bucky is inconsistent with any amount that would raise serum levels. Hopefully my math is wrong - but I suspect the dose of 500 mcg is more likely to do at least a little bit to one’s levels, albeit at a fairly high cost.

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Startup selling Klotho peptides (apparently)
#76

I’ll just quote this again so people can see it.

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#77

You are doing alot of speculation here. Speculation is fine if no one has ever experimented before and figured out the dose but they have. This .5pg dose comes from years of real world experience. I have been taking klotho for 4 years and learned from people that have been taking klotho for 8 years and run the largest group of klotho users. This is what they found works best in giving noticeable benefits without side effects. Klotho overdose is real and dangerous.

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#78

No speculation. Fact, a normal alpha klotho level is ~700 pg/mL.

So 0.5 pg will be 1/1400th the amount in 1 mL of blood.

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#79

You are speculating on the dose needed. So yes you are speculating.

#80

I don’t see any feasible pharmacologic or biological mechanism for 1/1400th of the amount in 1 mL of blood being added would do anything. You may be speculating, but mine is an educated assessment as I have specific training in pharmacology and peptides at a post graduate level.

I’m just a bit sad I didn’t do the math previously and thought the 0.5 pg might be sensible.

Interestingly the group doing the 10 mg vial of klotho is going for 500 mcg/3 times per week. That at least might bump up levels by 50%.

I’m sitting back to see how this goes, but that probably seems like a sensible dose. But I’ll let others be the testers on this.

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#81

How am I speculating? I have been taking it for 4 years and there are others who have been taking it for up to 8 years and have tried various doses and .5pg is the dose that gives the best benefits without side effects.

#82

Hi Keith,

Can you please share what side effects people have experienced so I know what to look out for?

#83

Steve Perry wrote about it in his klotho white paper

“Klotho is a metabolic hormone which makes it as difficult to work with as insulin or thyroid hormone. And most likely equally dangerous in excess amounts.
Between Klotho’s effects on FGF21 and FGF19, the first thing you may notice is feeling full after a small meal.
However, if your Klotho levels get too high, a half sandwich suddenly feels like you ate a big Thanksgiving dinner with a stomach ache to match.
If you keep taking Klotho at this point, then you’ll experience tachycardia (rapid heartbeat) which can be dangerous and take at least an hour to subside.
And if you for some reason don’t take a break and cut the dose after all the above, the next level of side effects is what feels like constriction/tightening of the throat. This probably has something to do with the Klotho/FGF21 effect on the thyroid. This is a scary side effect and if you experience it, you surely will have the good sense to take at least a month off from Klotho and cut the dose substantially.”

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#84

Well if Steve Perry is correct, we’ll expect to see a whole bunch of deceased individuals from the dosing at 500 mcg/dose with Celia Health. I disagree with Steve (may he rest in peace as I have loved watching his old lectures) insulin dosing and thyroid hormone dosing are easy. I do it literally every day for patients.

I think one fundamental problem with klotho is no cost effective and readily accessible way to test it. I’d love if someone finds a reliable option. I’ve not been able to.

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#85

Mystery solved, this product is not klotho protein. It is a small 33 amino acid peptide klotho fragment. Real a-klotho protein is 1,012 aminos. Which explains why the dose is not the same.

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#86

There isnt a problem with sourcing and using real klotho protein, it is affordable and accessible from bucky, canlab etc and has been used for years by many people at the dose of .5pg which has been found to be effective.

#87

@Keith I meant testing levels. Yes I know @Beth was working on finding out what form of klotho they were using, as I’ve been in contact with Bucky and pointed out this product to them that is way cheaper for a similar quantity. BuckyLabs told me that the Alpha Klotho is their product that has the tightest margin on pricing.

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#88

And to add…

The owner of Celia’s comments on facebook convinced me that I would never buy anything from them.

And I happily start my “A” klotho today!!!

@Keith I will try to avoid my throat closing up, so thanks for that list :slight_smile:

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#89

Buckys product needs a complicated dilution sequence, but canlabintl has smaller dose and only needs to be reconstituted so there is no risk of making an error which could inadvertently give you an excess dose, so it is safer. It would cost more in the long run but its a good option to start with and try before you try to tackle the bucky product dilution.

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