Goran
#41
I am not sure if this is relevant, but if the half life of Astaxanthin is very short in mice, it makes sense with with higher doze. I don’t know how much it differs for humans, but I assume the mice/human dosing calculations being done on different compounds is a bit wrong depending on the half life of compounds in mice vs humans.
Why would you expect the half life to be much shorter in mice? The half life is most certainly shorter in mice, but the difference is accounted for by the difference in metabolic scaling. My 920 mg daily estimate takes that into account.
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Goran
#43
if we humans takes to much Astaxanthin our poop turns pink and skin as far as I have read, the enormous quantities they fed the mice should have similar effect, but there is no mention of this in any studies. so the only thing I can think of is that mice metabolises this compound way different then us.
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I don’t see why they would mention it. If they wanted to know how much is absorbed they would measure levels in the blood, not the color of the skin or poop of the mice.
The poop gets red from astaxanthin because of the fraction that isn’t absorbed. The skin is a much better indicator of what is actually being absorbed but people normally don’t get any pinkish skin from astaxanthin. I’ve only heard of people taking massive doses reporting on tiny differences in skin color. As for mice, they have fur, so you don’t see the skin color well. The parts of them that doesn’t have fur is already pretty pink so a slight increase in pink colour would be hard to notice.
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When I was taking 20 mg of natural Astaxanthin a day, my poop definitely turned an orangish/reddish color, but not so at 10 mg. It may mean that our bodies (or just mine) have a hard time absorbing more than 10 mg of Astaxanthin.
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I’ve gone up to around 400mg/day and while there is some mild to moderate reddishness in poops, other than that no issues. I think Astaxanthin stains most things it touches… when I put it in a smoothie, the entire contents turns red. But I don’t necessarily take that as a sign that its not going to mostly get absorbed into the blood stream.
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Neo
#47
Below could be huge, at least for men?
… an alternative to 17⍺-estradiol that may work even better…?
From Rich Miller recent Peter Attia podcast this week:
Mike Garratt collaborated with a guy named Mo Jain to look at steroids in the tissues of mice treated with 17⍺-estradiol (among other things), and he noticed something really interesting
- He found two steroids that were members of the estriol family (not estradiol) that were elevated at least 20-fold in males that got the drug
- [reported as estriol‐3‐sulfate and 16‐oxoestradiol 3‐sulfate, metabolized from 17⍺-estradiol]
The hydroxy version of estriol is great for males
- It’s actually at least as good as 17⍺-estradiol
- We won’t know until we have the last few deaths, but it’s terrific
- That was a good guess: you don’t need 17⍺-estradiol because the estriol works terrific
—
- The dataset is 90% complete, and we’ll probably start writing it up in a month or two when we have 90% of the mice dead, but we had 50% of the mice dead
- We’ve presented at meetings
—
- It was a male-specific production of estriol when 17⍺-estradiol was given
—
- To be clear …//… it’s 16-hydroxy estriol
—
To listen yourself, see the second half of the section starting at
The ITP study of 17⍺-estradiol: mechanisms of life extension and surprising sex differences [1:43:30]
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I use Meclizine when I get Vertigo. Not sure i want to start taking it for anti aging. As for Astaxanthin, I might add it to my daily vitamine regime.
What is astaxanthin good for?
It’s most commonly found in Pacific salmon and is what gives the fish its pinkish color. An antioxidant, astaxanthin is said to have many health benefits. It’s been linked to healthier skin, endurance, heart health, joint pain, and may even have a future in cancer treatment.
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Does anyone know the dose equivalent for humans with Meclizine and Astax?
Scroll up in the thread for several estimates.
That’s why I asked this simple question. It’s too laborious to read through all the technobabble
for me. Not meaning to come off rude but I’ve read and read and can’t see the human dosage
I’d like to know too, A simple answer not wanting to go read another page or study
Vlasko
#55
This is the astaxanthin used in the study:
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I’m currently taking 15mg of Promethezine every night to help me sleep. I’ve been doing this 3 years due to combination of a chronic facial pain condition and a bout of insomnia. This was brought on when I unknowingly and coincidentally switched my diet to mainly high histamine foods… of course when I started taking an anti-histamine (for the drowsy effects of helping me sleep) it immediately solved my issues… It was only 2 years later when I worked out I was histamine intolerant that I realised why it worked so well and by that time I was reliant on it.
So far I’ve managed to titrate down to 15mg but I just bought some Meclizine 25mg and hopefully this will help me quit the Promethazine as I just found out I’m APOE 4/4. I think replacing it with something that has potential benefits is a good move even if I have to eventually titrate down the Meclizine as well. I guess my logic is that Meclizine is possibly less harmful than Promethazine for APOE 4/4 and has some other benefits so it;s a step in the right direction.
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LukeMV
#57
Thanks. Do we know if this company’s is any different than another reputable company’s?
Also I find it odd they recommend 24mg per day when they used a much higher dose for the ITP.
I would say that we know that the product is reasonably good because it was effective in the ITP study.
In the ITP study, they ask experts on the given compound “what is the optimal dose they think (guess) might maximize the lifespan increase in mice?”. This is a very different question they face as a company… which is really “what is the dose they can recommend for humans and not get sued successfully if anything bad happens to people taking that dose?”…
No company is going to recommend the ITP level doses (about 1.7grams/day) to people because it has not ever been tested in humans even for short periods of time, let alone for a lifespan (as they did in the ITP study).
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What was the reasoning for giving the mice such a high dose in the first place?
Would obviously be good to know if such a high dose is necessary.
In all the ITP studies, Richard Miller has said, they approach the lead researchers in a given compound and ask them what they think the best dosing level might be to maximize the gain of lifespan. They likely ask a number of people who have experience with that compound, including the people in the company producing the compound, and then given all the information they get, they arrive at a dose.
Cost of the compound is not a factor they consider at the outset, as the cost of each study is about $500,000, and the cost of the astaxanthin is a very minor percent of the total. I have communicated with Dr. Miller about the issue that consumers face, as the dosing level that the mouse dosing equates to is in the $2,000 to $4,000 a month (at 1.7 to 3.5 grams/day of astaxanthin in human terms).
If the dose proves toxic, or kills or shortens the life of the mice in the study, thats OK - thats part of the learning process. Obviously, you can’t do that (take those risks) in human trials due to ethical considerations.
As far as wanting to know if that high a dose is “necessary”… in the first study of a compound they are just trying to see if they can increase the lifespan of the mice. Now that they have done that, now they are testing to see what the “dose/response” relationship between astaxanthin and lifespan is. So now they are trying a lower dose - and between those two results they can get an idea of the dose response of astaxanthin with regards to lifespan.
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