#101

Use of Finasteride is associated with depression, so it must be influencing brain chemistry in a few ways. An ‘amateurish’ study found balding men to be statistically far more intelligent than non balding men. But on the other hand baldness is associated with higher levels of coronary artery disease. And considering that Finasteride is used to treat an enlarged prostate, a person may have to take it anyway when they get older. So there are arguments for both sides. I personally would not tamper with this phenotype, which must have some selective advantage.

https://rock929rocks.com/2022/04/28/bald-men-have-higher-iqs-study-says/

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#102

I have never heard of the hair loss increases intelligence angle, where did you learn this? Do you have a link to the study showing bald men being more intelligent on average than non-balding men?

Need a link to a study published in a scientific journal, please.

#103

I can’t find a link to a published journal in this regard one way or another. There seem to be ones claiming that bald men ‘seem’ more intelligent, but none that actually measured it. It would probably be wrong to make a study linking a phenotype to average intelligence because it could lead to discrimination over something that people can’t really do anything about.

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#104

In any case your point in regards to testosterone being perhaps protective of the brain rather than DHT is well taken. Studies seem to indicate that they are both neuroprotective in men.

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#105

Associations != causations.
It could very well be the case that people on finasteride are depressed because they are not perfect and you couldn’t prove otherwise.

An ‘amateurish’ study found balding men to be statistically far more intelligent than non balding men.

So basically “trust me bro”.

But on the other hand baldness is associated with higher levels of coronary artery disease.

Also only an association. There’s not trial do date showing that finasteride reduces incidence of heart attacks in men.

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#106

Finasteride does have depression as a side effect. It’s why I stopped using it. 1st day is fine. 2nd day I feel off. On the 3rd day of continuous use, depression sets in. I only take 1 mg at night. So, every week, on Monday I take 1 mg of Finasteride and I can live with that. Not sure how much help it will be for my hair, but I can’t stand the depression.

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#107

Ok, this is a complex subject that can be debated for a while, and since I am not an expert in the matter I can’t say much more. Androgens have been generally viewed as adverse to longevity. Finasteride lowers total male androgen levels. I am not a doctor so take the following with a huge grain of salt. But from what I read, If you don’t take Finasteride there may be higher susceptibility to cardiac diseases, some cancers, and other risks. If you do take it there may be higher susceptibility to mental decline, insulin insensitivity, other cancers, fatty liver disease, and other risks. There is obviously much more to it than that, and what I am trying to say is that each can make their own choice in the matter as there are pros and cons to both.

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#108

The net effect on total androgens is pretty much 0 because all DHT is derived from testosterone via 5ar and reducing 5ar leads to slightly elevated testosterone levels.

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#109

Oh ok, I though testosterone returned to baseline after prolonged use - “In a study, finasteride increased total testosterone by 9.1% compared to baseline. However, this effect diminished over time. By one year, testosterone levels were similar to pretreatment and remained stable with continued use.” Also I thought DHT is a more potent androgen that increases the effect of testosterone - DHT can bind to an androgen receptor longer, increasing the impact of testosterone production throughout your body .

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#110

figure-4-median-percentage

While testosterone seems to decline back to baseline eventually, I’m not sure whether that’s related to aging or the body “adapting” to finasteride.

Also I thought DHT is a more potent androgen that increases the effect of testosterone - DHT can bind to an androgen receptor longer, increasing the impact of testosterone production throughout your body .

In certain tissue like prostate, the skin and the hair follicles that is certainly the case but elsewhere in the body, like the muscles, DHT is disabled by 3a-HSD.

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#111

This person says DHT is a ‘trash’ hormone in adulthood. Supressing DHT is good according to him for longevity. And that BJ should promote finasteride.

I will have to read more about this.

He also suggests it may prevent Parkinson’s disease in men.

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#112

Does he share any research to back up his claims?

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#113

He links papers on eunuch longevity, women-men lifespan difference, this difference is likely due to androgens then. Testosterone we probably don’t want to decrease but DHT we can decrease as adults.

Brad Stanfield takes finasteride to reduce risk of prostate cancer and the person in the video mentions this as well:

Finasteride 1mg (for males only)

Finasteride is a molecule that blocks the conversion of Testosterone to Dihydrotestosterone, and is used in clinical medicine to reduce male pattern baldness and shrink the size of the prostate.

We have a long-term, placebo controlled trial showing that finasteride reduces prostate cancer rates, and a trend toward reduced mortality rates.

( https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMc1809961 )

Androgens seems in general be bad for longevity, but of course with differing effects on healthspan. I’ll have to read much more on this as I barely know anything about this. But it is promising that it reduces prostate cancer in RCT, link with the androgen and male-women lifespan differences. And different mechanistic / mice study for other conditions.

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#114

Unfortunatelly this is wrong. Finasteride DOES NOT reduce mortality risk, only the ones associated with cancer…

As you can, in the long term follow up : we count “only” 2979 death / 9457 placebo, but 48 death / 9423 finasteride, so we even have an increase in all mortality risk in the finasteride group, even if this is probably not statistically significant.

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#115

The same problem plagues nearly all interventions. Data on mortality is only interesting if it’s statistically significant. But the lack of significance shouldn’t make or break any decision as it’s really hard to detect. The best you can do in most cases is to look at specific diseases, like heart attack, or prostate cancer. Else you have a nearly impossible standard in many cases.

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#116

Sorry may I ask where you are getting these dosing recommendations? I’m trying 1mg orally per day and it seems fine for me. You’re recommending 0.5mg per day? — is that considered effective against hair loss? It would seem preventing prostate issues is a benefit longterm but if there are issues I guess topical is fine or cutting the does down as well.

I am curious if the depression cases are all at the 5mg orally daily? Or higher (or lower)? I checked many of the articles and they were surprisingly light on base statistics (although heavy on hazard ratios). For instance the WHO database had 3,000-odd “adverse” responses but didn’t say the dataset size: is that out of 5,000? Five million? Five billion? (Kidding).

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#117

Or maybe E2 is protective? That seems more plausible.

I would not trust Kevin Mann with any advice. He has no scientific background, reads some papers and interprets them the way he likes. He has strong biases.

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#118

I agree. He seems more like an entertainer (which is fine) than anyone I’d look to for serious health advice. I can’t find any background on him at his YouTube channel.

People talking about him say:

So he works in the pharmaceutical industry, admits that Finasteride chemically castrates you, only has hair because of transplant, yet still continues to make weekly videos about why Finasteride is “risk-free” and effective at growing hair.’ I would not say he is reliable.

  • he works in the pharmaceutical industry and still tells people to get the generic drugs if there is a alternative to the brand name

Source: Kevin Mann - Is He Legit ? | Looksmax.org - Men's Self-Improvement & Aesthetics

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#119

So how do you reckon the eunuch get E2?

I don’t care about scientific background or bias. I only care about the arguments and methodology. I love not being in that prison.

That’s someone trolling, as all of their points are false.

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#120

I watched all of his videos and he never said anything like that. He does not work for the pharma industry nor is he getting paid by them. The one video he made on finasteride and fertility ( (1) Can finasteride cause infertility? - YouTube) he concluded, based on existing research, that finasteride only has a small/negligible effect on fertiltiy. He also takes both finasteride and minoxidil after having done a transplant because he was too far gone for medication alone.

Imagine if some randos on the internet claimed that RapAdmin said that rapamycin causes infertility and cancer and that you work for industries developing rapanalogs. Would you believe them? I would not.

In my opinion, Kevin Mann is getting a lot of hate from bald men because of his strong opinions that are pro-treatment and anti-shaving. Especially his video on how balding negatively impacts your social and romantic life has caused a lot of seething in the online alt-right manosphere ( Why going bald can ruin your life (youtube.com)).

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