From ChatGPT

“ The relationship between PaO₂ and SpO₂ is described by the oxygen-hemoglobin dissociation curve, which is sigmoid-shaped.

Key points:

•	PaO₂ of 60 mmHg ≈ SpO₂ of 90%: This is the critical point where oxygen saturation drops steeply with small decreases in PaO₂.
•	Above 90% SpO₂, small changes in PaO₂ don’t significantly affect SpO₂.
•	Below 90% SpO₂, PaO₂ drops rapidly, indicating hypoxemia.”

It seems that 90% is the key level. Below 90% SpO2 causes significantly (dangerously) low O2. How long the hypoxia takes to show up in mitochondria is a question, but I wouldn’t expect it take very long. Holding my spo2 at 90% is very hard for 3 minutes. So far I am failing to keep it below 93 for more than several seconds.

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Really good! Let’s all move to the Alps!

Notably, we observed significantly lower risk exposure rates and a reduced disease burden as well as increased life expectancy by lower mortality rates in higher-altitude regions of Ethiopia. When assessing biological aging using facial photographs, we found a faster rate of aging with increasing elevation, likely due to greater UV exposure. Conversely, analysis of nuclear morphologies of peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMCs) in blood smears with five different senescence predictors revealed a significant decrease in DNA damage-induced senescence in both monocytes and lymphocytes with increasing elevation. Overall, our findings suggest that disease and DNA damage-induced senescence decreases with altitude in agreement with the idea that oxidative stress may drive aging.

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I think we can separate out the various effects of altitude

  1. Lower mtDNA mutations
  2. Problems with breathing from a shortage of oxygen
  3. Higher UV damage.

There probably is an optimal pO2.

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This podcast has lots of useful information on this topic

Athletic performance and longevity should be parallel goals unless pushing the envelope too far.

Since I no longer live at altitude nor do I have access to devices to increase or lower my o2 intake I have to resort to HIIT exercise and breathing (and not-breathing) drills.

The rabbit hole goes deep on the respiratory system and delivering O2 to cells but here I am just looking for ways to provide a “low O2” stress to signal the cells to run programs that have health and longevity benefits. Not hormesis as in damage but just a stress to tell the cells that this is an ongoing risk to be prepared for (retaining an adaptive homeostasis ability). Maybe HIIT is enough but I’m using breath holds and sustained shallow breathing to provide more stimulation.

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Grégoire Millet recently published (worth a read @John_Hemming): Mechanisms underlying the health benefits of intermittent hypoxia conditioning 2023

Whether IH is detrimental or beneficial for health is largely determined by the intensity, duration, number and frequency of the hypoxic exposures and by the specific responses they engender. Adaptive responses to hypoxia protect from future hypoxic or ischaemic insults, improve cellular resilience and functions, and boost mental and physical performance. The cellular and systemic mechanisms producing these benefits are highly complex, and the failure of different components can shift long-term adaptation to maladaptation and the development of pathologies.
In elderly adults (≥65 years), moderate sleep apnoea (apnoeic index 20–40/h) was associated with a significant survival advantage, in comparison with age-, sex and ethnicity-matched national mortality data (Lavie & Lavie, 2009), exemplifying the importance of the hypoxic dose.

These protocols typically consist of repeated 4–8 min exposures to hypoxia, i.e. fractions of inspired oxygen (FIO 2 = 10–15%, alternating with 2–5 min exposures to normoxia (IHE: FIO 2 = 21%) or hyperoxia (IHHE: FIO 2 = 30–35%), totalling 35–40 min/session applied 3–5 times per week for 3–8 weeks. IHHE has also been termed intermittent hypoxia hyperoxic conditioning (IHHC)

Much remains to be optimized to fully harness the potential of hypoxia conditioning. It is essential that the different basic and clinical research fields harmonize their understanding and communication of hypoxia conditioning research, differences in adaptation to continuous hypoxia vs. IH be better described, and individually optimal hypoxic doses systematically established. It will be especially important to establish organ/function-specific hypoxic dose thresholds that allow the eliciting of specific benefits, without triggering maladaptation in other organs. For example, a severe IH protocol (90 s cycles of 10% and 21% oxygen for 8 h/day for several weeks; Wu et al., 2015) reduced pain responses in rats, but similar IH protocols elicit maladaptive sympathoexcitation and cardiovascular remodelling in rodents.

In addition, several practical questions related to hypoxia conditioning remain, including: how long do respective benefits persist after concluding hypoxia conditioning? Once the improvements wane, can abbreviated hypoxia conditioning programmes restore them? Do medications or dietary supplements, e.g. β-adrenoceptor antagonists or antioxidants, interfere with hypoxia conditioning outcomes, as shown for cardio(Mallet et al., 2006) and cerebroprotection (Jung et al., 2008) in animals? Lastly, which conditioning protocols are most effective for different applications in prevention, rehabilitation and performance enhancement (including comparisons of IHE and IHHE)?

He also wrote last year: Hypoxia Sensing and Responses in Parkinson’s Disease 2024

We describe cases suggesting that hypoxia may trigger Parkinsonian symptoms but also emphasize that the endogenous systems that protect from hypoxia can be harnessed to protect from PD.
These effects of inspiratory hypoxia likely overlap with and may, to some degree, reproduce or amplify so-called “functional hypoxia” caused by increased oxygen demand, for example, in skeletal muscle during exercise or in the brain due to motor-cognitive training [102,103,104]. Therefore, “functional hypoxia” may also play a role in the well-documented benefits of exercise [35] and motor–cognitive training in PD.
However, even though clinical trials are on the way and will provide important new information on individual responses to hypoxia in people with PD, we probably should not expect to be able to appreciate the full potential of hypoxia conditioning in PD too soon. The determination of the hypoxic doses required to induce an optimal effect while also minimizing hypoxia-associated risks will be a major future challenge, especially since many parameters have to be optimized, including the intensity, duration, and frequency of the hypoxic stimulus, but also the type of hypoxia (normobaric versus hypobaric), the role of CO2 levels (isocapnic versus poikilocapnic hyperventilation in hypoxia reduces CO2 levels), and various environmental (e.g., temperature) and behavioral (e.g., activity level) factors likely play a decisive role. Increased CO2 levels, by themselves or in combination with hypoxia (e.g., by adding CO2 to the breathing gas), for example, promote ventilatory plasticity and increased cerebral blood flow. While the evidence is mounting that responses to oxygen level changes are crucial in neurological diseases, and especially PD, understanding the role of the factor oxygen requires systematic investigation.

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Looks like this Grégoire Millet is a prolific writer (@John_Hemming another good paper): Hyperoxia-enhanced intermittent hypoxia conditioning: mechanisms and potential benefits 2024

Figure 1:: Molecular signaling elicited by IHC and IHHC activates adaptive gene expression to confer health benefits.Note: Moderate hypoxia activates the powerful transcription factors hypoxiainducible factor (HIF) and nuclear factor erythroid 2-related factor 2 (Nrf2) and their respective gene programs. Decreased cytosolic oxygen (O2) concentrations stabilize HIF, allowing its translocation to the nucleus where it activates transcription of genes encoding an array of proteins, e.g., glycolytic enzymes, angiogenic factors and erythropoietin, that adapt the organism to hypoxic conditions. Also, hypoxiareoxygenation cycles cause the formation of reactive O2 species (ROS). Upon reoxygenation, endoplasmic reticular nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate hydrogen (NADPH) oxidase becomes the principal ROS generator. ROS liberate Nrf2 from its cytosolic binding complex, allowing its nuclear translocation and activation of a host of genes encoding antioxidant and anti-inflammatory enzymes and factors. Collectively, the products of the HIF and Nrf2 gene programs enhance metabolic control of serum glucose and lipids, increase physical exercise capacity, strengthen cellular ischemic resistance, improve memory function of cognitively impaired individuals, and increase cardiopulmonary function in patients with chronic cardiovascular and pulmonary diseases. Whether IHHC protocols induce such beneficial effects more efficiently than IHC requires confirmation.

Reactive O2 species (ROS) generated during the abrupt hypoxia-to-normoxia transition have emerged as major factors that induce adaptations to IHC. Moderate increases in ROS trigger redox signaling cascades that mobilize the nuclear factor erythroid 2-related factor 2 gene program to effect adaptations that increase cellular, tissue and organism resilience. On the other hand, higher ROS levels impose oxidative stress that damages biomolecules and cells.

Formation of ROS during hypoxia-normoxia transitions is rather modest, limiting the induction of protective antioxidant defenses. Compared with normoxia, reoxygenation with moderate hyperoxia (intermittent hypoxia-hyperoxia conditioning, IHHC) may affect greater ROS production, including by nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate hydrogen oxidase in endoplasmic reticular membranes (Figure 1), thereby eliciting more robust induction of antioxidant genes. In patients with metabolic syndrome, IHHC proved to be a safe and readily tolerated intervention supporting the therapy and secondary prevention of components of metabolic syndrome and bolstering the patient’s anti-inflammatory status. As those studies did not directly compare IHHC with IHC, it remains unclear whether IHHC really confers benefits superior to IHC, and, if so, whether IHHC’s superiority may be due to more intense ROS formation and induction of antioxidant gene expression. Since ROS formation parallels increased O2 concentrations, the therapeutic range of hyperoxia intensity likely has an upper limit, beyond which the cytotoxicity of excess ROS would outweigh the benefits. Our aim here is to summarize and evaluate the limited empirical evidence on this topic and propose future research to define potential safety and efficacy differences between IHC and IHHC.
The collective evidence indicates that, although studies in rodents support the hypothesis that IHHC may induce beneficial adaptations more efficiently than IHC, a similar IHHC superiority in humans is not yet established.
Typically, 30–35% O2 is applied during the hyperoxic periods, but this moderate hyperoxia may be too weak a stressor to trigger meaningful responses to the hyperoxia. On the other hand, more intense hyperoxia may elicit excessive, potentially harmful ROS formation. The possibility that hyperoxia might interfere with aspects of hypoxia responses, e.g., by reversing hypoxia-inducible factor activation, also merits consideration, as does the likelihood that IHC or IHHC protocols eliciting maximally beneficial responses and adaptations may vary among individuals depending on age, sex, genetic background, physical fitness, health history, medications and other variables. The persistence of the health benefits following completion of IHC or IHHC programs is another pivotal factor. Consequently, more systematic evaluation of potentially health-promoting IHC/IHHC protocols is mandatory to maximize the benefits of these promising interventions for many diseases for which effective treatments are currently limited or unavailable.

We seem to have a decent amount of research on the benefits and mechanisms of intermittent hypoxia + hyperoxia, is there similar exploration for exercise + intermittent hypoxia + hyperoxia? Is the benefit even greater? I know that we have some evidence in athletes, I’m mostly curious if it would be better to do these protocols with exercise or not.

I’d also love to see more about the pathways of HBOT compared to intermittent hypoxia (+ hyperoxia). We know that HBOT at 2.0ATA + 100% oxygen (and possibly as low as 1.3ATA) induces positive changes, but it seems like from the research posted it’s through different mechanisms? Could these be complementary therapies?

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It is an interesting thought experiment to consider why oxygen deprivation kills so quickly. It highlights the massive requirement for energy just to keep the lights on. Turtles have developed mechanisms to dramatically slow the need for oxygen (sleep under water), but a turtle is not a good conversationalist.

Our ability to tolerate oxygen deprivation for brief periods (during physical activity?) is probably related to better recovery or protection from oxygen deprivation damage as well as the ability to function on less oxygen when needed.

The more efficient (skillful movement) I am the faster and farther I can run on the same oxygen. The better my respiratory and cardiovascular systems, the better I can capture oxygen and get it to the cells. And the ability to tolerate higher lactate (and accompanying hydrogen ions) means I can “borrow” oxygen from the future to pay back after I get up that tree.

So better fitness once again is a top priority but what else can help for longevity? Do breathholds or low oxygen exercise or HBOT or altitude simulation sleeping tents or nasal breathing during exercise and sleeping (and more)…add anything to exercise? And does any of this matter for longevity even if I’m not running from lions or diving underwater for food?

I’m betting yes.

Oxygen deprivation kills off brain cells.

Well yes. My rhetorical question was about why the cells die…what mechanisms don’t get energy (when there is no oxygen) to keep working that then result in the death of the cell. These are known. All of that energy need in our BMR assumes oxygen will be available. What does our body do to create a buffer against oxygen shortages or protect against damage from oxygen shortages or quickly repair damage from oxygen shortages? And what besides exercise/ physical activity can build up these defenses, and do such defenses aid in health and longevity beyond the effect of exercise? I think so but I can’t prove it. It’s a bet on resilience.

I don’t know how much of this remains rhetorical. Looking at the HBOT book I have basically there is not that much oxygen storage per se although obviously some is stored in Haemoglobin. Consciousness is lost below a venous pO2 of 19-20mmHg and below 10-12 mmHg you get cardiac collapse.

Although people can train to some extent to manage lower oxygen levels it is not the same as shortage of glucose.

Looking at one chart in the book there are cognitive impacts from lower Oxygen levels at as high as 18% where you get delayed dark adaptation. 15% delays the ability to learn a complex task. Impaired short term memory hits at 13%. Loss of critical judgment arises at 11%. Loss of consciousness occurs around 7%. (table 3.5 page 26). Siesjo 1974.

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Interesting: altitude is associated with longevity but higher suicide rates:

So despite higher suicide rates, all-cause mortality is still lower at high altitudes!

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The initial dark adaptation issues start around 5,000 feet.

I think we understand the life extending mechanism of chronic hypoxia. There are also negative aspects.

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FYI, in Europe, I found these devices:

For an N=1, I was surprised to see that after taking rapa (12 hours earlier), my resting spo2 was down 5 pts to 94% while sitting in my chair where I do my breath work. I wonder if that has anything to do with why I feel tired after taking rapa…

When I did my breath holds and shallow breathing, everything felt normal (in a bad way) and my spo2 pattern was similar to non-rapa days. After recovery my spo2 went to 99% for a few minutes before gradually falling back to 94% as I rested.

I haven’t been tracking my PI so I’ll start doing that to look for a pattern.

Weird.

This one is way cheaper (€2,783.00) but I think it doesn’t do hyperoxia: Altitude training workout package for at home | b-Cat High Altitude

It’s the one used in the Dutch Parkinson’s disease study.

I am currently thinking about 17-18% for sleeping in might be a good idea. There do appear to be cognitive issues below that. They are probably not permanent, however.

They have this package for you :wink: Altitude training sleep package Head Space (Incl. 21% VAT) | b-Cat High alitude training

There is an interesting question which is what the relationship is between SpO2 and FIO2. It may be that the SpO2 would imply an adequate partial pressure of oxygen when it is actually marginally low.

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