#371

I’m on my 2nd cycle of Mots-c.

Common recommendations:
Cycle SS-31 with TMG before cycling MOTS-c. Mitochondrial repair

Common MOTS-c protocols:

  • 5md MWF for 8 weeks
  • 10mg once/week for 8 weeks.

Some find 2mg every other day gives an energy boost, some feel nothing at 5mg or 10mg.

From another site:
:loudspeaker: Peptide Spotlight: MOTS-C

:mag: Description:
MOTS-C is a mitochondrial-derived peptide (MDP) that plays a critical role in metabolic regulation, with a significant influence on energy production, insulin sensitivity, and fat metabolism. Discovered relatively recently, MOTS-C is unique among peptides because it is encoded within the mitochondrial DNA, unlike most peptides, which are encoded in nuclear DNA. This peptide has garnered attention for its potential to improve metabolic health, enhance physical performance, and promote longevity by optimizing mitochondrial function, which is essential for cellular energy production and overall vitality.

:muscle: Health Benefits:

  • Metabolic Regulation: MOTS-C enhances insulin sensitivity, thereby improving glucose metabolism. This makes it a promising candidate for reducing the risk of metabolic disorders such as type 2 diabetes. By activating AMPK (adenosine monophosphate-activated protein kinase), a key enzyme in cellular energy homeostasis, MOTS-C helps cells utilize glucose more effectively, thereby reducing blood sugar levels and improving overall metabolic health.
  • Fat Loss: MOTS-C promotes fat loss by increasing energy expenditure and enhancing mitochondrial function. It has been shown to stimulate fatty acid oxidation, helping the body to burn fat more efficiently. Additionally, MOTS-C may reduce fat accumulation by inhibiting fat storage pathways, making it a valuable tool for weight management and combating obesity.
  • Longevity: The peptide’s potential anti-aging effects are linked to its ability to improve mitochondrial function and protect against metabolic decline associated with aging. MOTS-C has been studied for its role in promoting cellular resilience to stress, reducing inflammation, and potentially extending lifespan. These effects are particularly relevant in the context of age-related diseases, where mitochondrial dysfunction is a common underlying factor.

:syringe: Dosing/Administration:

  • Typical Dosage: Currently, there is no standardized dosage for MOTS-C, as it is primarily used in experimental and clinical research settings. Dosages in studies typically range from 5 mg to 10 mg per week, administered in divided doses. However, the optimal dosage can vary depending on individual health goals, such as improving metabolic health or enhancing athletic performance.
  • Administration Method: MOTS-C is usually administered via subcutaneous injection. The peptide is often injected into the abdominal area, as it is readily absorbed into the bloodstream from this site. The frequency and duration of administration depend on the specific metabolic or health goals being targeted.
  • Cycling: Usage is often cycled with breaks to maximize benefits and prevent desensitization. A common cycle might involve several weeks of active administration followed by a period of rest to allow the body to reset. This cycling approach helps to sustain the peptide’s efficacy over time, particularly in long-term applications such as metabolic regulation or anti-aging therapies.

:warning: Side Effects and Safety:

  • Common Side Effects: MOTS-C is generally well-tolerated, with minimal side effects reported in the literature. Some individuals may experience mild injection site reactions, such as redness or irritation, but these effects are typically transient.
  • Safety Profile: MOTS-C is considered safe for use in metabolic regulation, although it is still under investigation, and its long-term effects are not fully understood. The peptide’s safety profile is promising, but ongoing research is needed to fully elucidate its potential risks and benefits. Individuals interested in using MOTS-C, particularly for extended periods, should do so under the guidance of a healthcare provider to ensure appropriate monitoring and to mitigate any potential risks.

:microscope: Research Insights:

  • Mitochondrial Function: MOTS-C has been shown to counteract the effects of a high-fat diet and age-related insulin resistance in animal studies, making it a potential therapeutic agent for metabolic diseases. It works by activating pathways that enhance mitochondrial function and energy expenditure, which are crucial for maintaining metabolic health.
  • Exercise Performance: Some studies suggest that MOTS-C can enhance physical performance by increasing energy availability and reducing exercise-induced oxidative stress. This makes it an attractive option for athletes and individuals looking to improve their fitness levels.
  • Age-Related Diseases: Given its role in improving mitochondrial function, MOTS-C is being explored as a potential treatment for age-related diseases, including cardiovascular diseases and neurodegenerative disorders, where mitochondrial dysfunction plays a key role.

SS-31 Mitochondrial, Healing, Focus, Longevity

• Repair cells
• Macular degeneration
• Muscle weakness
• Energy
• Cognitive function
• Improves cardiovascular health
• Prevents kidney injury
• Treats lung injury" "SQ:
• 4 mg daily for 10-20 days
• 2 mg on the first day, then 4 mg daily for 12 days (for 50 mg total) (Reddit)

**Protocols with MOTS-C and Humanin: **
• 2 months of SS-31, after one month start 2 months MOTS-C, after MOTS-C, one month Humanin. When that ends, resume MOTS-C for 2-3 months then repeat the whole cycle. The humanin can be omitted and MOTS-C continued. MOTS-C 3 months on, 1 month off. This info from a private practitioner, not published material" Sometimes cycled with Humanin, MOTS-C, Tesofensine

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#372

It’s a pity that there is still quite limited human research/clinical trial results available for some of these peptides.
Did some members here measure their blood biomarkers before and after using peptides (such as SS-31 or MOTS-C) while not changing any confounding variables, and are willing to share results?

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#373

I did a fair amount of testing but have several confounding variables (variety of peptides and supplements) so unlikely to be most significant N=1 data point. That said, what biomarkers would @Pat25 or others be interested in seeing for MOTS-c impact?

In terms of “feels” I didn’t experience any meaningful impact from SS-31 or two subsequent cycles of MOTS-c.
SS31 protocol:

SS-31: (maybe do this for a month before starting mots-c) two potential protocols:
1: 4mg/day for 25 days Modify to 5mg/day for 25 days = 125mg used
2: 10mg/day for 20 days

My MOTS-c protocol was 5mg MWF for 6 weeks.
Other protocols I’ve seen:

MOTS-c protocol: MWF 5mg/day for 6 weeks on/off
5mg, M-W-F for 4-6 weeks followed by 1x weekly dose of 5mg for 4 weeks =100mg
- 5 mg three times a week for 5 weeks, followed by 5 mg once a week for 4 weeks. Can repeat this cycle 3-4 times a year (Dr. Seeds)
- 5 mg three times a week for 4-6 weeks (Metabolic Optimization Guide)
- 10 mg once a week up to 10 weeks in a row every year (Tailor Made Compounding Catalog, Ben Greenfield’s “Boundless”)
- 10 mg once a week for 4 weeks, followed by another cycle within 12-months (Dr. Rob Kominisrek)
You can go 2-3 MOTS cycles per year

All that said, I won’t be cycling SS-31 or MOTS-c again. No impact for me. Others say they experience significant impacts but it’s all anecdotal and subject to placebo effect as best I can tell. Research is too limited here.

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#374

Thanks so much for sharing: really appreciate the details you gave about your protocol.
Personally I’d be interested in hearing any potential changes in for example hs-CRP, HbA1c, liver, kidney, lipid values, monocyte to lymphocyte ratio, HRV trend. (I may be missing things, so perhaps others could also chime in here).

#375

Before and after MOTS-c though with several confounding factors and changes (where three results the later two are “after” values):

hsCRP: 0.49 > 0.43
A1C: no before, but 0.46 after
LDL-C (mg/dL) 65 > 56 > 67
HDL-C (mg/dL) 73 > 43 > 72
Triglycerides (mg/dL) 52 > 33 > 42
Non-HDL-C (mg/dL) 76 > 77
VLDL-C (mg/dL) 9 > 10
Total Cholesterol (mg/dL) 149 > 114 > 149
Lp(a) (mg/dL) 30 (after only)
ApoB (mg/dL) 53 (after only
ALT 34 > 35
AST 36 > 27
TSH (µIU/mL) unchanged
fT4 (ng/dL) unchanged
fT3 (pg/mL) unchanged
HRV hard to measure meaningfully but call it unchanged.

2 Likes
#376

FYI, MOTS-C is a banned substance for sport

https://www.usada.org/spirit-of-sport/what-is-mots-c-peptide/#:~:text=Yes%2C%20MOTS-c%20is%20prohibited,Section%204.4%20Metabolic%20Modulators%2C%204.4.

#377

That probably indicates that it works. It takes a fair amount of investigation to get a supplement/drug, etc. banned.

4 Likes
#378

From Umbrella Labs I purchased BPC-157 & TB-500 Peptide 15MG/15MG Liquid Spray two months ago. For four weeks I sprayed each nostril twice daily which is the dosing schedule I got from ChatGPT and Microsoft’s Copilot AI programs. I noticed nothing at the four week point. So, I continued this dosing schedule for four more weeks, but added 2 capsules daily of BPC-157 DELAYED PRO - 500MCG from Infiniwell. The total length of the trail has been 8 weeks and I’ve noticed no improvements in gut health or joint health. I’ve simply noticed nothing. It’s possible something is happening, but I’m not sure there would be any way for me to measure it other than what I feel. Yes, I could add another month and maybe I would notice something and maybe not. And, certainly a nasal spray and a pill would not likely have as much impact as an injection. These are rather pricey items for what you actually get assuming that what you get is actually what the product says it is. This is just my two-cent’s worth of information on these two specific products, nothing more. I don’t doubt that the proper peptide / bioregulator from a reputable source used appropriately (nasal, sub-lingual, oral, injection) can be effective.

By the way on the Infiniwell website the product I mentioned is very highly rated in the Reviews. However, I’ve found that reviews can’t always be trusted. I’ve gotten requests from vitamin companies to submit a review to get a free bottle of vitamins before. On supplements ordered from Amazon twice I got unexpected refunds I didn’t request simply because I wrote reviews that weren’t positive. Along with those refunds were emails implying I should remove the reviews, Well, how many people would simply give a short review with a high rating just to get that free bottle of vitamins or remove a review that a company didn’t like? I suspect a lot.

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#379

Is anyone injecting Epithalon more frequently than semiannually? I find suggestions of ten days monthly for a few consecutive months in particular for seniors with e.g. shorter telomere length.

I finished a cycle of 10 days of 1 mg Epithalon and 10 mg Thymalin. With painstaking attention to detail, it has been an empowering experience learning to self-inject safely in particular the deep intramuscular Thymalin. An adjustable mirror and a semipermanent marking showing that safe top outer quadrant on my glutes helped a novice like me.

When injecting in the evenings, I noticed the possible positive short-term effect of Epithalon, good sleep. Could well be coincidental, it´s too short a series to be sure it was the Epithalon.

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#380

Thank you I will keep an eye on that

#381

If it’s not on the WADA banned list I don’t want it LoL!!

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#382

We’ve been using BPC+TB at 500mcg each per dose, subQ - daily - for over a year. Significant improvements in old injuries and any new ones.

Recovery from “hard work” is rapid.

While it may work fine as a nasal spray and orally, subQ will almost always be the best way to use peptides like this.

The only type I’d use nasally would be for the brain :slight_smile:

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#383

We did 3mg Epithalon daily for about a month, mid Aug to Mid Sept.

Sent in our blood sample for our 9 month TruD test end of Sept. We’ll see :slight_smile: But we also take 800mg NMN daily been doing that for nearly 2 years and teloes have been getting longer ever since we started measuring that.

dtcProvider_208330330023_R07C01_Telomeretimelinegraph

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#384

I’m sorry, I don’t understand telomere telomere length.
Is an increase from 6.76 to 6.95 significant?
Does 6.95 correlate to any particular age range?

I have been taking 1mg daily at bedtime for 3+ weeks.
I have read that epithalon, a synthetic derivative of epithalamin, is 3-10 times, or more, potent than epithalamin,

As I posted previously, it is giving me as good a night’s sleep as I have ever had.

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#385

I think the significance of telomere length is mainly in the activity of Telomerase which also helps to improve mitochondria.

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#386

What do people experienced in Peptides think of this new Huberman podcast on the topic?

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#387

John’s point that it is an indicator of telomerase activity is spot on. There may be other benefits.

Max telomere length is 8.00kb in white blood cells

My current telomere length indicates a telo age of 61 vs my 68 chrono-age. Since I’m more interested in trends, the fact mine are increasing in length should be a good thing :smile:

Here is article on telomere length

Telomere Length as a Marker of Biological Age: State-of-the-Art, Open Issues, and Future Perspectives

An older article on telomeres

Telomeres, lifestyle, cancer, and aging

And a very good overall view of telomeres

Are Telomeres the Key to Aging and Cancer

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#388

Excellent video. It covers most of the leading-edge peptides and many of my favorite supplementations, like methylene blue. It is one of the few YouTube videos I will save to watch again.
I am not a particular fan of Huberman, but I think this is a must-watch video for anyone interested in peptides and some other health interventions.

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#389

Agree with @desertshores the video is good but, I think it’s good in spite, of Huberman or at least only because of his willingness to mostly let his guest speak. Huberman is not particularly skilled in peptides and makes a lot of missteps when he discusses them (so I rarely listen) however, Dr. Koniver was a wealth of information and I may adjust a few of my protocols based on his commentary (particularly around the BPC/TB dosing and the GHRx stacks he discussed). Good podcast for sure and very informative. I do wish Huberman would stop constantly bashing the research peptide companies, we all get it you don’t support us getting our peptides there however, I think the crowdsourced, highly reputable, well tested vendors at the top of the business are fine sources, well tested by many biohackers over time. Say it once so you can check the box and let it go Andrew!

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#390

Agreed. Skye has started doing both sterility and endotoxin testing (in addition to standard purity testing) for some of its products.

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