#223

I’m surprised that you would dignify this with a link. This looks like junk science to me. It doesn’t pass the “smell test”. The Daily Mail??? and that picture is obviously click-bait. Reminds me of a Seinfeld episode. If you pay for the full text, I have a bridge I could sell you.
A letter from Pakistan?? (not Nigeria?)

Oh, and in reference to our earlier discussion on reputable Scientific Journals, here’s a long list of questionable journals - Beall’s List (posted before).

https://beallslist.net/

Surprised to see “Frontiers” there but you had mentioned MDPI.

#224

I found it on Reddit just now. I won’t post a direct link to a download in this case, but there is a responder in the Reddit thread.

Also, below is a related study published about a year ago in the journal Biomolecules. This paper is open access. In their narrative review they hypothesize the following:

“In summary, we suggest that nose-picking increases the transfer of pathogenic microorganisms from the hand into the nose changing the nasal microbiome from a symbiotic to a pathogenic type, with possible consequences of a chronic low-level brain infection via the olfactory system, subsequent neuroinflammation, and neurodegenerative diseases including AD. (1)

(1) Zhou X, Kumar P, Bhuyan DJ, Jensen SO, Roberts TL, Münch GW. Neuroinflammation in Alzheimer’s Disease: A Potential Role of Nose-Picking in Pathogen Entry via the Olfactory System?. Biomolecules . 2023;13(11):1568. Published 2023 Oct 24. doi:10.3390/biom13111568

2 Likes
#225

The proposal that invasive pathogens enter the brain and lead to Alzheimer’s isn’t a new idea, and introduction of pathogens through the nasal cavity may be the most plausible route for bacteria and yeast to enter the brain. However, whether low-level infection and neuroinflammation is causative or whether it is a result of the disease itself and its effects on the immune system is a question that remains to be answered. See post 147 in this thread. More information is in the review linked below.

It raises the question of whether a one-time antibiotic regimen designed to eliminate or reduce yeast and bacteria burden in the brain as a person gets older may pass a risk-benefit analysis. It would be speculative at this point until more scientific evidence is available. I earlier put some thought into a possible combo for this in the post below. It’s just an idea of mine, not a recommendation. I first thought of ceftriaxone, but as an IM injection it has a tendency to cause muscle pain.

2 Likes
#226

I agree that it’s a very low level of evidence.

#227

And despite the low quality of the letter, what wrote @Vlasko is 100% on point. So somehow, this stupid Daily Mail article pointed to something noteworthy.

3 Likes
#228

That pathogens could enter through the nasal cavity? OK, plausible…that it is scientifically connected to nose-picking??? That should be in the humor section. Just read the section from the MDPI Journal that @Vlasko posted.

8. Rhinotillexomania (Nose-Picking)—A Widespread, Unhealthy Habit?

The accumulation of these particles can lead to the formation of dried mucus, commonly referred to as “buggers,” within the nasal passages [207]. When the accumulation becomes excessive, it can hinder the smooth passage of air through the nose, potentially leading to breathing difficulties or discomfort. Nose picking, as an instinctive behavior, is a subconscious response to relieve the discomfort associated with nasal obstruction. Through removing dried mucus and other nasal debris, individuals may experience temporary relief from breathing difficulties. This unhealthy habit can lead to a perceivable improvement in airflow, thus reinforcing the behavior as a means to achieve immediate relief. It is essential to note that the temporary relief obtained from nose picking is not a substitute for proper nasal hygiene.

That’s some pretty deep science there…bet that took years of research.
Lead Author of the study - Xian Zhou is currently a Research Support Program Fellow at NICM Health Research Institute. Her research focuses on natural products.

1 Like
#229

Earlier work from Griffith University, 2022:

“There are some simple steps to look after the lining of your nose that Professor St John suggests people can take now if they want to lower their risk of potentially developing late-onset Alzheimer’s disease.

“Picking your nose and plucking the hairs from your nose are not a good idea”,” he said.

“We don’t want to damage the inside of our nose and picking and plucking can do that.

“If you damage the lining of the nose, you can increase how many bacteria can go up into your brain.”

News Article:

Link to Study:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-06749-9

2 Likes
#230

Alzheimer’s may be an autoimmune condition: “Based on our past 30 years of research, we no longer think of Alzheimer’s as primarily a disease of the brain. Rather, we believe that Alzheimer’s is principally a disorder of the immune system w/in the brain.”

3 Likes
#231

Thank you, Miss Manners! @Vlasko if you’re advising people on the forum about social etiquette, fine, but this is not HARD SCIENCE. It’s like telling people not to fart, spit or chew gum. Certainly if you damage your nose, that’s a problem but that’s not normal.

The hard science study you posted from nature.com was on mice and mice AFAIK don’t pick their noses.

In this study, we also used the methimazole injury model to investigate whether epithelial injury can increase the risk of C. pneumoniae invasion of the olfactory/trigeminal nerves and brain. For this purpose, 7–8 week old female BALB/c mice were injected with a single dose of methimazole.

#232

In addition to more specific markers for AD, there is a new blood test called Neurofilament Light Chain, or NFL for short. It’s been offered through Labcorp for about a year, and Quest Diagnostics just started offering it in the last month or so.

This is the summary test description from Quest Diagnotics:

“Neurofilament Light Chain (NfL), Plasma - Neurofilament light (NfL) is an intermediate filament protein found specifically in the neuronal cytoskeleton. It can be released into the extracellular space through axonal degradation, and it has been shown that varying NfL levels are an indicator of neuroaxonal damage, irrespective of the cause, and can therefore be associated with a variety of neurological diseases such as multiple sclerosis, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, frontotemporal dementia, or Alzheimer’s disease, as well as acute situations such as traumatic brain injury and others. NfL is thus considered a promising biomarker for, disease activity, progression, prognosis, and monitoring effectiveness of therapies. As NfL can be measured in both cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) and blood, it holds great potential for routine clinical use. Light Chain (NfL), Plasma - Neurofilament light (NfL) is an intermediate filament protein found specifically in the neuronal cytoskeleton. It can be released into the extracellular space through axonal degradation, and it has been shown that varying NfL levels are an indicator of neuroaxonal damage, irrespective of the cause, and can therefore be associated with a variety of neurological diseases such as multiple sclerosis, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, frontotemporal dementia, or Alzheimer’s disease, as well as acute situations such as traumatic brain injury and others. NfL is thus considered a promising biomarker for, disease activity, progression, prognosis, and monitoring effectiveness of therapies. As NfL can be measured in both cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) and blood, it holds great potential for routine clinical use.”

The test lacks specificity, however it can be used as a sensitive biomarker to assess if neuronal loss is within expected parameters for a person’s age group. So if someone is concerned they may have early symptoms that are cognitive or otherwise neurological in nature such as MS or Parkinson’s , this new test, especially when paired with other screening modalities, may help to detect neurological disease at an earlier stage. To give an idea of cost, I found out today that Marek Diagnostics offers it through Labcorp for $406.

There is some conflicting evidence it may be raised somewhat in some persons with major depressive disorder. If so, that suggests that elevations aren’t always linked to conditions that are irreversible.

Per Quest Diagnostics:

“NfL levels can be influenced by many factors, including age, body mass index, kidney disease, and a history of diabetes or cardiovascular conditions. The results of this assay should be considered in conjunction with the findings from medical and family history, neuroimaging, and physical, neurological, and neuropsychological examination.“

1 Like
#233

2023 article commenting on a 2022 paper: is there more recen research on this assumption?

#234

A new review by Alzheimer’s experts shows that some Long COVID patients have cognitive impairments including memory problems, confusion and difficulty concentrating that are similar to those seen in Alzheimer’s disease and related dementias (ADRD). Slowed brain activity on EEG is also seen in both Long COVID and dementia patients and may be related to shared mechanisms like neuroinflammation, astrocyte activation, and blood vessel damage. The authors recommend that cognitive dysfunction in Long COVID be evaluated and followed with routine EEG.

From: https://alz-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/alz.14089

2 Likes
#235

Which part(s) do you feel is not science?

  1. That the brain is connected and exposed to the outside world via the nose

  2. That there is enough data and mechanistic understanding to consider that AD, brain aging and/or other dementias can be driven by bacterial, fungal and/or viral pathogens leading to unwanted processes and cascades in the brain

  3. That frequent hand to nose contact can increase the risks of bacterial, fungal and/or viral pathogens entering the brain

#236

The big question: can vaccines prevent that?

2 Likes
#237
#238

Agree that is one big question.

Another is - how much do reasonable other precautions to avoid and/or optimally deal with infections - compounded over decades - help?

#239

What about avoiding for example shopping during rush hours or large crowds of people?

1 Like
#240

Wasn’t that clear enough?

Frequent hand to nose contact is a common behavior as far as I know - even if it’s not “nose-picking”. Bacteria is all around us and in the air, on surfaces, etc. The nose is a filter. Yes, it’s a potential passage to the brain. And if I were working in a lab full of pathogens, I wouldn’t touch them and put my finger up my nose. Does “nose-picking” lead to Alzheimers…well…does farting spread diseases through the air?

#242

I personally do weight such decisions and think over the decades the effect/value may compound

1 Like
#243

Little to no downside and potential upside.

1 Like