Rapamycin and toenail fungus onychomycosis

[KarlT]

@Agetron im a tad confused. Why did you add the Rapa? To speed up treatment or increase chance of success or something else?

[vegasallen1]

Rapamycin is an antifungal.

[desertshores]

I sprayed my rapamycin/transcutol mixture on my big toenails which appeared to be developing some fungus around the edges. After about one week it completely disappeared.

[Agetron]

Sol wrote:

Tap water. Are you at all concerned about DMSO bringing tapwater contents into the skin?
I am aware of the power of DMSO to bring all kinds of stuff with it, so curious as to your thinking on this.

I almost suggersted distilled water - lol, which my wife keeps for ironing in the laundry room. Of course that is a better option. But, here in northern Missouri. Our tap water is very clean, healthy and not treated to death with chemicals, so I personally just take it from the tap or from a fresh bottle of drinking water. Again - it is not necessarily getting into the blood stream. And, it is a very small amount even on the surface. A good observation. Trying to keep my skunk works simple.

Sol wrote: I don’t understand “every 5 days” here. Are you applying the topical every day, or every five?

If you use 6mg divided by 30 days that is .2 mg per day - every day! that is 1 mg every 5-days. And by end of the 30 days/month it is 6mg total applied around and to the toenail surface. A fairly miniscule amount… on the surface, so not much evidence of it going much deeper than the skin’s surface - which is all you need.

Hope that helps!

[Agetron]

Karl and anyone else who has not listened to this podcast - I think it is a must. I first listened when it was posted by RapAdmin.

Radio Lab The DIrty Drug in the Ice Cream Tub.

http://www.wnycstudios.org/story/dirty-drug-and-ice-cream-tub/

I have listened to this so much I can almost recite it - and yet - it never bores me. The whole story of rapamycin’s discovery and all the important players.

Here is the anti-fungal part:
AJAI SEHGAL: And he began to try to isolate unique compounds from that soil sample.

AVIR MITRA: So he basically takes the soil.

AJAI SEHGAL: They examined it under the microscope.

AVIR MITRA: And eventually, Suren and his team…

AJAI SEHGAL: They go, oh, that’s interesting. They isolated a compound that was not seen before, and it had a very interesting molecular structure.

AVIR MITRA: And it’s kind of this clear, white, crystalline-type of powder-looking thing. And Suren’s like…

AJAI SEHGAL: I wonder what it does.

AVIR MITRA: And so…

AJAI SEHGAL: They test it.

AVIR MITRA: …They put the compound on different petri dishes, and…

AJAI SEHGAL: They exposed it to certain bacteria, certain fungi.

AVIR MITRA: To kind of see how they’ll react to the compound.

AJAI SEHGAL: And then they observe.

AVIR MITRA: And after a few days, they notice…

AJAI SEHGAL: Any fungus they put it in contact with…

AVIR MITRA: Would just stop growing.

(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)

AVIR MITRA: It’s like time had just kind of frozen.

LATIF NASSER: Huh. Like, he would have expected that, like, that amount of fungi would just keep, like, dividing and - boop (ph), boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop.

AVIR MITRA: Exactly. Yeah. By this point, it should have coated the whole plate, just covered in fungi, just like if you leave, you know, old yogurt in the fridge, it’ll just get covered in mold, you know? So that’s what should have happened, but instead, it didn’t happen. So he’s like, ooh, maybe this could be an antifungal.

AVIR MITRA: So for the next few years, Suren is just, like, trying this stuff out on mice, basically, you know, giving them fungal infections and then seeing if rapamycin works. He tries it on dogs. Ajai even says he tried it on a friend’s wife who had a fungal infection on her arm.

Wait. Can you even do that?

AJAI SEHGAL: Yeah.

(LAUGHTER)

AVIR MITRA: He’s carrying it around, like, in his back pocket. And he pulls it out at this family friend’s house, and he puts it on her arm.

AJAI SEHGAL: And she tried it, and it completely eliminated the fungal infection.

Now you know why I figured this would work on toenail fungus - and it did!!

[JuanDaw]

It is a short post, so I will quote entirely. But the link is below.

An economical cure

N=1

I am a retired physician whose left big toenail became heavily colonized by an unidentified fungus with resultant thickening, opacity and deformation. A respected dermatologist confirmed my diagnosis, but we decided not to initiate any treatment. The cost of oral treatments ranges from about $250 to $500, and there are many serious side effects.1–3

Shortly after the consultation, I decided to undertake a trial of topical iodine. I obtained a bottle of 2.5% iodine tincture at a cost of $3.27, and applied one drop of the solution daily, with occasional lapses, to the tip of the affected toenail. The iodine travelled rapidly into the depths of the affected subungual tissues.

After 2 weeks, a sliver of normal-looking nail appeared at the proximal end of the affected nail. Encouraged, I continued the treatment. The nail grew at the normal slow rate, and the diseased area gradually moved distally. The nail is now apparently normal.

The total cost of the treatment was $3.27, and half of the original bottle of iodine solution remains for further treatment, if required. In view of the efficacy of the treatment in this isolated case, it would seem reasonable to institute a trial with a larger number of patients to obtain scientifically acceptable results. However, blinded trials would be difficult, given the telltale colour and odour of iodine. No side effects were observed in the case described.

[desertshores]

Personally, I don’t like DMSO because of the theoretical possibility of carrying contaminates into my bloodstream, but as one person’s historical observation:

Back in the days of CB radio,(Mainly 1970s) is where I first heard DMSO mentioned.
I heard a truck driver extolling the virtues of DMSO to his buddies. DMSO became quite the craze and people everywhere were slathering it on and even drinking it. Old people especially were praising its virtues for curing all kinds of aches and pains.
I remember a few vague warnings from the health officials, but I don’t remember anyone suffering any dire consequences from using it. And, I knew plenty of people trying it, including my mother. Of course, we didn’t have the internet then so maybe adverse consequences were not widely reported. Mostly they were not using USP grade either.
I suspect the actual risk is lower than the theoretical risk.

[aalyman]

For what it’s worth, I’ve had this problem for many years. I suspect it’s related to a lifetime as a distance runner. Tried lots of different remedies, then the Mrs. got me a tub of Emuaidmax, an ointment made from natural oils of varying amounts, she had heard about. Son of a gun - amazingly, it has worked. The fungus is gone - all that is left is for the nails to grow out fully. I’d suggest giving it a try.

[Agetron]

Hey Karl… I never really directly answered your question. "Why did you add the Rapa? To speed up treatment or increase chance of success or something else?

I figured it would speed up the treatment and increase chance of success in not getting a re–infection of fungus.

Scorched earth the toenail fungus!

As I mentioned, my two prong effect of daily oral terbinafine and topical pure DMSO with pure rapamycin dabbed around the nails with a Q-tip has been an unequivocal success.

Glad to have that chapter of life over.

[Jay]

JuanDaw, This may work for some, but it did not work for me. I even added DMSO according to this article: Onychomycosis treated with a dilute povidone–iodine/dimethyl sulfoxide preparation - PMC . I’ve had toenail fungus several times over the last 10 years and in the process I’ve used just about every home remedy I could find through my research. None of them worked. The only thing that partially worked was a topical cream from Blaine Labs that contained about 25% undecylic acid, tea tree oil and a few other ingredients. I used it for several years. The name of it was Terpenicol, but I don’t think it’s manufactured any more. I finally gave in to my fears of terbinafine tablets a few months ago and went to my dermatologist for a prescription. She noted that liver problems were quite rare and that blood tests would be done to check for any problems. None were found. I followed the protocol of one 250 mg tablet daily for three months in a row and the fungus appears to now be gone. I wish I had done it years ago instead of suffering with the problem for so long and experimenting with so many useless home remedies. In the meantime I have acquired another supply of tablets and will now follow an alternative second plan noted here just because I want to be thorough: A Week of Oral Terbinafine Pulse Regimen Every Three Months to Treat all Dermatophyte Onychomycosis - PMC. The plan I will follow, which is noted in this article, is 500 mg terbinafine daily for 7 days in a row at the beginning of each month for 3 to 4 months in a row. This article may also mention other plans, but I don’t plan to follow them. The one remedy I did not try was the rapamycin + terbinafine + DMSO topical which sounds like a good idea. I do, however, continue to treat twice daily topically with a 25% undecylic acid product I found on Amazon. Once cured I’ll probably continue the topical once daily to help prevent a new infection. If the rapamycin + terbinafine + DMSO was commercially available I would use it instead of the undecylic acid.

[JuanDaw]

Just shared the above because it came from a physician.

I had a toe infection (toe, not toenail). I tried iodine. It alleviated it, but the itch kept recurring for months. Used OTC cream tolnaftate (Tinactin). That fixed it.

[Agetron]

I finally gave in to my fears of terbinafine tablets a few months ago and went to my dermatologist for a prescription. She noted that liver problems were quite rare and that blood tests would be done to check for any problems. None were found. I followed the protocol of one 250 mg tablet daily for three months in a row and the fungus appears to now be gone. I wish I had done it years ago instead of suffering with the problem for so long and experimenting with so many useless home remedies.

I am with you Jay… 2-years with this was way too long. I found the terbinafine worked 100% and had no liver issues based on blood tests taken by my physician one month after starting terbinafine to be sure all was good. It was normal.

For me it is the answer to toenail fungus and I think adding DMSO with rapamycin as a topical treatment simulataneously didn’t hurt… and likely helped a good bit.

I plan to continue to take a 500 mg tablet once a week for a while, and then maybe once a month. Do not want this ever again. Also, I will continue to do daily DMSO/rapamycin topical for a few weeks then maybe drop that to once a week too.

[Coachrhyk]

I made a concoction of dmso with cinnamon essential oil for a friend. It took about 1 1/2 years to clear, but it worked. I like the idea of using rapamycin. I just need another friend with toenail fungus!

[vegasallen1]

Hey Agetron I got the same exact DMSO you use. Now maybe a problem. My latest rapamycin shipment from India left Mumbai 11 days ago and I haven’t heard anything since so I’m concerned. Hopefully it shows up soon.

[Agetron]

Here’s hoping all is just slow in the mail.

Just crush 3 rapa tablets… add some DMSO a few droppers full and a squirt of water - make it stay liquid for applying. Apply with a Q-tip.

I am making more tonight.

[RapAdmin]

@Agetron

I have listened to this so much I can almost recite it

The Dirty Drug in the Ice Cream Tub - It is a great story! I’ve listened to it a few times, and shared it with family and friends. It gets people interested in Rapamycin so much more than just presenting the “facts” around rapamycin. People love a good story - and this has a great story.

I contacted the podcaster (a doctor) - and suggested he do a followup podcast with more of a focus on the past decade of rapamycin in longevity. He said he’d think about it.

[Mary]

Soak your feet in hydrogen peroxide (about $5) at supermarket… and keep your feet uncovered for a week or so

[Agetron]

Time for a photo update. Dosing Terbinafine HCI oral 250 mg once a day… and 6 squirts of pure DMSO with 6mg crushed rapamycin brushed on toes each morning - fungus gone (lived with it for 2 years). Started April 20th and today… about 5 months. Gone!

This afternoon. September 10, 2023

5 months ago in April 20, 2023.

[Agetron]

Thought we were due for an update… I am now off my terbinafine pills (was taking every few days) and off my DMSO with ground up rapamycin as a topical treatment.

Success!

This morning. November 29, 2023

[Emaginate]

Maybe I could be your 'friend’ with a problem toe nail.
Sincerely,
Jan