#7

You can find some discussion across the forum of liposomal transport of rapamycin.

Seems like a natural for it.

With some basic equipment, knowledge, and disciple one could create liposomes oneself.

Serious biohacking?

On the idea that non enteric capsules of Rapamycin come pretty cheap, I think DIY enteric coatings deserve more attention. I’ve seen discussion of using shellac. No idea if it works, but it seems we could come up with something non-toxic, acid resistant, and easy to utilize.

I have some rapamycin powder (from a compounding pharmacy) that I add to: toothpaste, topical minoxidil, and face cream.

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#8

So did anyone try to coat a non-enteric capsule with shellac?

I’ve been searching for pharmaceutical grade shellac in Europe, available to consumers - can’t find it thus far. Was anyone able to find it?

#9

“Food grade” should do…

via ChatGPT

Shellac is a natural resin secreted by the lac bug (Kerria lacca), a tiny insect native to forests in India and Southeast Asia. Here’s a breakdown of its composition and production process:

1. Source:

• Shellac is derived from the hardened resin produced by lac bugs to protect their nests.

• The insects feed on the sap of specific host trees, like the palas, kusum, and ber trees.

2. Harvesting:

• The resinous deposits, called sticklac, are scraped off the branches of host trees.

• Sticklac contains impurities like bark, insect parts, and other debris.

3. Processing:

• The sticklac is crushed, sieved, and washed to remove impurities, leaving seedlac, a more purified form.

• Seedlac is further refined through heat or solvent processes to produce the final shellac flakes or buttons.

4. Chemical Composition:

• Shellac is a complex mixture of:

• Resins: Primarily hydroxy fatty acids and sesquiterpene acids.

• Waxes: Provides natural gloss and water resistance.

• Pigments: Lac dye gives shellac its characteristic amber or reddish hue, though it can be bleached for a clear finish.

5. Uses:

• Shellac is dissolved in alcohol to make a versatile wood finish.

• It’s used in food products as a glaze for candies and fruits.

• It serves as a natural coating in pharmaceutical products (e.g., pill coatings).

• Shellac is also used in electronics, arts, and crafts.

Because it’s derived from natural sources and biodegradable, shellac is often considered eco-friendly compared to synthetic alternatives.

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#10

The problem imho with food grade shellac is that it is not necessarily able to withstand stomach acid - pharmaceutical grade should be. See for example also the chocolate coatings from shellac, these are of course food grade yet not gastro-resistant.

#11

Yes, we can also discuss whatever, but this was supposed to be about the rectal route. For example, you could mention articles like
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Rectal-drug-delivery%3A-A-promising-route-for-drug-Prasanna-Deepthi/da491f64e9a345e1fde0bbb22e4572d59d303cbe
or drugs like indomethacine, a relatively large molecule, lipid soluble, administered in suppositories,
or we could discuss why people who want to avoid glucose spikes eat 20 g and up of trehalose instead of putting it into the rectal cavity. Is the rectal route really so embarrasing that we must completely neglect it and best change the subject???

2 Likes
#12

For oral discussions and making or using enteric coated capsules and making your own capsules - see these past discussions:

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#13

Yeah man, lucky for those who enjoy trafficking up that cavity. Not sure I’d opt for living longer if it entailed regularly sticking stuff up my ass.

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#14

We’re all different what we’d do for rejuvenation…?

Anything’s up for grabs for some.

image
image899×595 194 KB

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#15

You asked: Is the rectal route really so embarrasing that we must completely neglect it and best change the subject?

It is just a bit odd at first… like the South Park episode of shoving food in your ass and eliminating feces from your mouth…

Absorption through colon works… just hard to wrap our head around it. And, has the rap of being a way to take recreational drugs.

What Is Boofing Drugs?

Boofing drugs, sometimes also referred to as plugging drugs, is the process of inserting drugs or alcohol into your anus in order to get a more immediate high.

Because your anal cavity has a high number of blood vessels and a thinner surface layer, substances inserted into this area are absorbed at a faster rate than with oral consumption.

People can boof a number of different drugs, including cocaine, MDMA, and alcohol, but there are several dangers of boofing drugs – it could even be fatal.

I’ll take my whiskey “neat”… and in a glass. :wink:

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#16

Rapa
Rapa3438×1825 467 KB

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#17

Sure, we can always go further down. On the other hand, we could discuss interesting science, such as asking, does the rectal route actually bypass the liver? Well, here is hoping that more level headed people come back to the forum after new years. BTW, boofing, very few people in the recreational drug scene do it. I thought that here there are far more people for the reason alone that fasting is so popular here. Do I have to explain the connection?

1 Like
#18

Have now tried trehalose and rapamycine, both have low oral bioavailability, rectally, results are great:

Had a fever and stomach upset, thus stopped eating, now 6th day of total fast.

20 g trehalose in 60 ml warm water rectally on 2nd day, no side effects, no urge to empty bowels, thus all absorbed without having it first turned into glucose.

On 3rd day, 20 mg rapamycine as in my suggested protocol (in 0.3 ml benzyl alcohol, then mixed into 2.5 ml MCT oil), administered rectally 2h after grapefruit juice ingestion and two enemas to completely clear out residual stool. Again, no urge to empty, no pains, so all absorbed bypassing stomach acids and possibly first pass liver. High dose rapamycine side effects on 4th and 5th days clearly indicate it has hit the system. Thus, will reduce dose next time.

Conclusion: This is the way, and next time I will add spermidine rectally one day after rapamycine, because spermidine autophagy inducer is necessary first step in mTOR related autophagy and spermidine is yet another one with very low oral bioavailability.

So, please, openminded people who can measure bloodlevels and biomarkers, please try rectally and report your findings, and childish people who cannot suppress their repressed sexual associations when exposed to discussions of such issues please do not clutter up this thread with nonsense, thank you.

Pauper's Drug Hacks
Spermidine rejuvenates T lymphocytes and restores anticancer immunosurveillance in aged mice
#19

Well, at least you might end up with a very youthful ass👍. I would wonder if perhaps over time the rectal/colonic environment might be affected by the drug. That’s an unknown at this point. People have done all sorts of things like coffee enemas, so why not this. From a practical point of view, I don’t know if I want to regularly get extensive colonic cleanses and enemas every time I take rapamycin just to save some money. At some point I think I’d probably break down and crack open my wallet rather than crack open my ass cheeks for another session of rapa boofing, however thrifty that might seem. YMMV.

#20

The question is, how is the oral rapamycine or trehalose or testosterone or Mg… distributed (!) compared to other routes, say transdermal testosterone or Mg. You somehow think that rectal stays in the ass and oral goes everywhere, you just have to open your wallet and dose more and poor absorption is balanced. But if fact, oral goes to the liver and anyways stays in blood and is thus rather fast cleared and excreted also by kidney and the fact that many substances are not supposed to be at high concentrations in blood, for example Mg, and so it never reaches many places well. Other routes hit much smaller blood vessels and larger surfaces to interchange with tissue, lymph system,… and actually distribute better into the whole body.

#21

Well, yes. But the opposite conclusion might be reached too. The fact that a given drug, in this case rapamycin has a different pathway through oral vs transdermal (or rectal/colonic) absorbtion might mean that it undergoes different processing resulting in different health impact. We know this to be true to some degree, because we’ve had studies where rapamycin was delivered through injection (in mice) and having a non-equivalent impact. It reminds me of various arguments I read about how curcumin is not absorbed into the blood plasma and therefore is an inert molecule in the human body. Except the action of curcumin was not through direct effect, but through the metabolites that arose as a result of being processed through the microbiome. The manner of deliverance matters, and not just through bioavailability of the molecule itself. Most studies of rapamycin were conducted in models where the method of delivery was oral (and some injection). That to me is a salient point, and not something to gloss over as you rush to a conclusion based on a completely different mode of delivery, with potentially completely different processing and discrete effects all along the way.

It’s the old black box problem. Inputs → processing inside the black box → outputs. You cannot expect to change the input and then have the exact same output because you have speculated or assumed what goes on inside the box. You want the same output? Make sure it’s the same input. You have just changed the input from oral to rectal. Bzzt! Wrong. You are assuming that the change of delivery method - i.e. what happens inside the black box - will nonetheless deliver exactly the same output as in the studies where we have reached conclusions based on oral delivery. I have spent enough years reading biological studies to know that such assumptions are dangerous in the extreme.

Now, you may be right, and it makes no difference except for the differences you outlined - but that’s an assumption that needs to be proven. I don’t know. I don’t assume or claim anything. I just demand that you show it, because there are no studies that I am aware of which examined the effects of rectal delivery of rapamycine. Maybe you are right, but then you must show your work. You have not done so, instead you made a series of unproven assumptions. A hightly dangerous thing in medicine, that has lead to many faulty outcomes. Mechanistic reasoning at its worst. Show me the outcomes, and then we’ll talk.

Meanwhile, I’ll stick to taking rapamycin in the way studies have shown - oral. Those are the outcomes, and that’s what I’ll do, based on studies. So I’m going by the study protocols - you are not. Until you have proven otherwise I don’t see your approach as well founded. YMMV.

#22

going rather strong again are we? Did you not just recently go of the rails while discussing here? Hypertension? It is you who made the unbased assumption of that the rapa just treats my ass. I have not made any of the claims you ascribe to me! I proposed the rectal route, started trying, asked others to please help establishing blood work. Now take some deep breaths and consider the longevity due to loving kindness.

#23

Eh? I made concrete points about biological pathways, in response I got a lot of odd statements not focused on the issues at hand. And therefore, there is no need for me to comment - let them shine on their own for all to see. No advantage in any further interaction. All the best!

#24

you are abrasive and can’t give constructive criticism all over this forum, and others told you so. Once more, calm down, or you gonna cut down on your lifespan no matter where you put the rapamycine.

#25

Also the rectal area evolved to counter entering poisons by absoption into the “first pass liver” metabolism, via HPV (hepatic portal vein duct) and IVC (inferior vena cava), as in this picture.
c991d8f3e2e87c84

Therefore, also rectal application occurs 2h after ingestion of a grapefruit, after 50 mg acarbose.

1 Like
#26

Good news, more info I found on this great forum, so people here knew, but instead opted to clutter the thread with silly nonsense. Why is that???

Anyways, CYP3A4 already acts in the intestine walls, not just the liver (“first pass”). Thus, it being highly likely that there is less CYP3A4 in the rectum, the rectal route still has all the originally claimed advantages, even though blood still goes to the liver (which is prepared by grapefruit ingestion).