This is an interesting observation @Tim. What is your eGFR when you consume normal amounts of protein. Have you crosschecked with a Cystatin-C measurement?
jnorm
#11
Interesting that you mention that, because I’ve been binging on steak for the past 6 weeks or so, and my eGFR (tested last week) just came back at 78, which is the lowest it’s ever been. My previous 3 tests were 99, 119, & 108.
I cook it in the oven on low heat and then throw it on the grill for a couple minutes. Takes longer but they always come out perfect, plus I figured the gentler heating would produce less reactive species. I was also considering starting to pair it with something to inhibit iron absorption, although compared to free iron it’s harder to inhibit absorption of the heme iron in red meat. Maybe instead I should be worrying about finding other types of meat to eat.
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Grilled meat for sure with its heterocyclic amines and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. Processed meat cold cuts are awful and disgusting. Grass fed ground beef lightly sauteed for a chili soup cannot be worse than eating Oreos.
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Huge amount of context left out… what is the meat replacing ? What is the rest of the diet like? What are your fluid intake vs output ? NSAIDs ? DM ?
One has to look at how that heatmap was generated. Meat is rarely consumed alone. It’s possible that meat comes out looking bad in that study because of some other factors riding along. I might just have a nice juicy stake in honor of this study next Friday. I don’t eat meat, other than some seafood, but on rare occasions I do so, like a great restaurant when I’m traveling, or whatnot. I can’t believe having a bit of healthy meat in your diet is dire, assuming you get most of the other factors right.
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There is no issue with GFR. It’s just the eGFR which is calculated from the creatinine level.
Note that the e in eGFR is estimated GFR.
Red meat contains creatine, which metabolizes into creatinine which artificially lowers the eGFR level in the same way as taking creatine as a supplement.
People should measure Cystatin-C and compute the eGFR from it instead, if they eat creatine as a supplement or in meat.
I posted my eGFR with and without creatine here Creatine Supplementation Definitely Increases Creatinine Levels - #8 by cl-user
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I wonder how accurate one eGFR test is. I found out for myself how important hydration is before a blood test. It really affects creatinine and eGFR results.
If this is so easily influenced by hydration, how much weight do we assign the results?
You are very active. Were you properly hydrated before the last test? As I recall, I have asked you this question before.
I eat a lot of red meat, mainly steak, but I see more of a relationship to my hydration before the test. I found this out when my Doc asked me how much water I had consumed before a test that came back a little low. For the next test, I drank a liter of water in the hours before the test and achieved a nice increase in my GFR result.
“Dehydration reduces plasma volume and renal perfusion, leading to a transient rise in serum creatinine and thus a spuriously lower eGFR. One analysis notes that even moderate dehydration can reduce GFR until fluid balance is restored.”
“Water intake and progression of chronic kidney disease: the CKD-REIN cohort study - PubMed”
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Many supplements affect blood test results, and creatinine supplementation is one of them. I always stop creatine and most other supplements at least three days before a blood test. I want to see what my body is doing without props.
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I like to see what my blood is doing with props, but for my USA blood test, I limit the number of supplements I take vs the ones I do in Hong Kong.
My eGFR is steady at about 108 when calculated with Cystatin C.
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Tim
#19
Few things are as satisfying as a good steak. But chicken, tuna, and salmon are more benign. Make at least one day of the week all fruit and vegetables.
My hemoglobin is low, which may indicate an iron deficiency, which may suggest iron tablets, although an iron infusion would be nice.
@ RobTuck
What is your eGFR when you consume normal amounts of protein. Have you crosschecked with a Cystatin-C measurement?
In my one experiment, I binged on two 1 lb. rib eyes. Tested a few days later, my GFR had dropped from 40 to 32. When my kidneys bounce back, as they usually do, I may celebrate with a lamb shank or some pot roast.
I am faithful to the renal diet, but not rigidly so, and my GFR fluctuates. I don’t think I’ve ever had a Cys-c test. I’m not dissatisfied with current arrangements.
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jnorm
#20
The rest of my diet didn’t change much, the increased beef has been replacing shrimp, chicken, and bacon (permanently removing bacon). Fruit as main fiber source, white rice as main carb source, avocados and avocado oil as main source of unsaturated fats. Zero fast food. I eat a lot of ice cream but overall I’d say my diet is good. No NSAIDs.
amuser
#21
Anyone considering a cystatin-c test should get it at Quest, not Labcorp:
And the posts after.
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Rats. I was relying on LabCorp for my Cystatin and other kidney related bios.
In general, and partially based on Matt Kaeberlein’s remarks (he said about LabCorp “do better”), I’m thinking of getting my bloodwork done all by Quest.
My LabCorp Cystatin C was $75 (via Life Extension).
Question: Is it normal for an eGFR test to be jumping around like that? Mine is Ok for my age, not optimal, but has been very steady over the last 15 years, showing a gradual decline but no jumps.
Beth
#24
Fwiw, Gethealthspan just switched from using Labcorp to Quest.
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Any idea why they switched?
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Beth
#26
I don’t, but am curious. I had reached out to them to find out if I could go to quest instead of labcorp, and their reply was simply they had just made the switch.
I have no idea if the test results of one are better than the other, but in my city Quest is a much better experience. Most results are returned in 24 hrs. The ease of scheduling is much better, and I am usually seen within ten minutes of the scheduled time. Also, they have many more locations.
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I don’t have a way to make a technical assessment but have used LabCorp for two decades and am pleased with their logistics, customer service, and from what I can tell, their state of the art analytical equipment. There is no way to be certain but the results I get appear to be congruent with those of Quest in cases where a healthcare system uses them. Their CapX must be high because they continue to add automated analytic capabilities locally which reduces the need to route specialized test samples around the country as al the labs have done in the past and still do to some extent. My biggest two complaints about LabCorp are that they the morning appointments are booked solid for weeks in advance and some lab results can be slow if your test(s) are not common. Routine tests turnround in a day.
These two companies are locked in head-to-head competition so I suppose we will see more changes.
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Yes, some results are delayed up to three weeks, which is ridiculous. But booked solid? I noticed they’re booked online, but if I just show up without an appointment, they take me immediately within literally 3-5 minutes. So that’s what I’ve been doing the last few times. I need to have this on time, because I’m checking sirolimus levels at specific times post dose, like 50 hours, so I need a test at a timeframe that’s within 15-30 minutes of the dose, no more. I walk in, put down my requisition papers, give name, tell 'em I’m paying out of pocket, and have barely enough time to sit down before I’m called in for the draw. I don’t know if this is typical, but that’s how it works at the location I always go to, in Beverly Hills, CA. At most there are like two people in the waiting room. My visits are just before or after 12 noon weekdays.
My other blood tests are at UCLA with doctor’s visits, and they use all sorts of labs when they outsource, including Quest. Frankly, I never gave much thought about the specific facilities - my bad.
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