#361

Interesting, I will look into alfratadiol.
Usually, finasteride injections are not done as they are tolerated worse than dutasteride injections in case reports.
The hair bulb is usually 4mm deep, and the injection are usually 3-4mm deep. So no worries about it going systemic or causing side effects because it is not injected deep enough to enter any significant vascularities. Also the dosage is extremely small. For example oral dutasteride is 0.5mg, but in the injections it only a total dosage of 1ml of a .01% solution.

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#362

Interesting… had not heard of this before:

https://www.actasdermo.org/en-rf-mesotherapy-with-dutasteride-a-future-articulo-S1578219020301396

and a clinic providing it:

https://jrapaportmd.com/mesotherapy-with-dutasteride/

And a recent review:

ejd.2023.4443.pdf (73.6 KB)

#363

Don’t do it in the US. It’s overpriced and technique is wrong. I also don’t know if the product they are using is the same quality as the sterile dutasteride has to be compounded a specific way which they already have that down in the EU. I tried Rapaport and it was terrible. He charged $400, technique was completely off, and basically it’s just a mess. He used a electric dermastamper that ejected the dutasteride (which is extremely not accurate). Only stamped two spots, and I don;t even know if the dutasteride came out of the dermastamper let alone at what depth he stamped, because he doesn’t show you anything he is doing. Terrible headache right after, he missed every thinning and balding spot as he literally only stamped it in 2 places… He has a lot of elderly patients for other procedures so he is seeing like 3 patients all at once. You could feel he is in a rush.

Go to Portugal or Spain where it was basically invented and done more often to Europeans for only 110 euros. I can provide clinics I been to perhaps privately. They take their time with you, they follow the original technique of 1ml syringe of .01% dutasteride mixed with silica, amino acid and vitamins. You literally walk out of the clinic feeling like you didn’t have any procedure because there is no discomfort in the injections, blood or pain. You could feel your hair revive the next week. So much better.

Here are some sources:

Mesotherapy using Dutasteride-Containing Solution in Male Pattern Hair Loss: a Controlled Pilot Study

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#364

I know the back-and-forth on finasteride may have been painful for several of you directly involved, but I found it interesting and actually helpful. Before this I was under the impression that 1mg was the lower/est dose. But from your dialog I noticed 0.2mg could be helpful. I found a few places that suggested that 0.5mg/day is almost as effective (80%) as 1mg/day, so I might try that. And maybe I’ll take the other “saved” pills and crush them into a hair serum with DMSO.

I don’t seem to have any side effects. I started taking it 1.5 months ago because I have been lifting heavy weights since January and noticing “hormone” increase effects (such as in the morning) which haven’t been evident since I was a teen (I’ve never taken T measurements so I really can’t say). Also, the hair on my front suddenly started to thin. So I assume I raised my testosterone from lifting (as I didn’t change anything else except for eating carnivore during this time). With the 1mg finesterade the mornings were less “evident” but still there, and the hair started thickening again (even after a short time). So perhaps I see small side effects but otherwise everything seems good. However, less is more with pharma in my mind, so if I can cut it back to 1mg every other day, I’d prefer it. Actually, the only other thing I changed was I was taking 5,000 Ui of Vitamin D for nine months before this, but on suggestion from this forum I cut it back to 5000 Ui every other day about 1.5 months ago as well (my serum D levels were last 32 so still lower end of normal). It is possible it was the vitamin D instead, in that it helps in production of T so perhaps it cut my T levels from cutting vitamin D. Or a combination.

1. Reducing the dose

Reducing the dose to 0.5 mg or 0.25 mg may be associated with reduced chances of side effects. DHT is still inhibited at these doses, albeit not as effectively as a 1 mg dose. Studies have suggested that DHT inhibition at 0.2 mg is about 80 % the level of 1 mg pill.

2. Reducing how often it is taken

Even though the drug half life is 6-8 hours, one needs to consider how long 5 alpha reductase inhibition in the scalp is actually occurring. Studies have suggested that 1 mg finasteride daily and 1 mg finasteride every other day are fairly similar in effectiveness although good studies still have yet to be done to really back this up definitely. Taking every other day can reduce side effects but may potentially alter effectiveness as well.

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#365

On the highest level of scientific evidence, finasteride has way more research backing it up.

Hair loss is not a terminal illness which needs to be treated aggresively and risky using pharmaceuticals which are used to treat prostate cancer.

But topical finasteride still goes systemic to a large extent.

I don’t see the trade off to ruin your serum DHT levels by 70-90% levels when you are in your 20’s + only to POSSIBLY prevent prostate cancer

Prostate cancer is one of the most dangerous cancers for men.

by the time you are 60 especially not knowing if you are going to even get the prostate cancer.

I might luck out and live over the age of 120 just by pure chance without using statins, rapamycin or anything else. Would I bet on that?

When I go to the EU they say the opposite of lets try the minimum effective dose approach and only inject it locally.

Dutasteride mesotherapy is expensive and inconvenient.

taking low dose finasteride of 0,2mg rathern than the 1mg or more could be justified.

0.2mg is not as effective as 1mg which is why 1mg is the prescribed standard dose for androgenic allopecia.

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#366

Topical alfatradiol is not nearly strong enough to fight androgenic alopecia on its own but may play a role as an adjunctive therapy. I’ve used it in the past before finasteride without any success.

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#367

My father had prostate cancer when he died, but it did not cause his death. AFAIK about a 1/3 of men develop prostate cancer.

An interesting question to me is what proportion of cancers are to some extent epigenetic in origin.

From the paper:

Prostate cancer is a frequently detected cancer in the United States for men over 50 years of
age. Despite recent therapeutic advances, prostate cancer still represents a major urological
disease associated with substantial morbidity and mortality [1, 2]. Androgen deprivation therapy
(ADT) has been the cornerstone treatment for advanced and metastatic prostate cancers. Despite
initial high response rates, cancer management with ADT is of limited duration; nearly all men
eventually develop progressive prostate cancer following ADT. This is referred to as castrationresistant prostate cancer (CRPC) [3]. This progression may be caused by a series of mechanisms,
which include but not limit to AR-dependent mechanisms of resistance [4, 5] and a
glucocorticoid receptor-adaptive resistance mechanism [6]. CRPC is also conferred by a
frequently occurring AR splice variant. One of the most common variants is AR variant 7
(ARv7) [7-8].

AFAIK Splicing Variants are driven by a shortage of acetyl-CoA

Hence I wonder if the shortage of acetyl-CoA were to be rectified that this would prevent or in some way ameliorate prostate cancer. It would be an interesting experiment.

#368

Prostate cancer is the second leading cause of death of American men.

According to the article below more than 50% of men over the age of 90 die with prostate cancer… not from it.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2468294220300605

However, if you live long enough, it probably becomes the limiting factor.

My father had it removed and it spread to his bladder and lymph nodes. Fortunately, radiation treatment took care of the spread and he has been cancer (and prostate) free for 2 years. Hopefully that’s the last we’ll see of that!

#369

I’m not that optimistic about YJ Labs as there are other similar products out there already claiming to do just that with quite mixed reviews. At this stage Eirion Therapeutics seems like the most legitimate attempt at hair pigmentation restoration as opposed to just coloring having filed patents and going someway towards explaining the mechanism they’re relying on. There’s also Ralf Paus’ company: https://www.cutaneon.com/ which is working on an anti-grey product, but no details as it seems its very early development. It may involve rapa as he recently co-authored a paper on rapa reversing grey hair which has been referenced on this site. It’s encouraging to see various things in the works with different companies, and I hope Im wrong about YJ as I’d love to see something on the market or GPs office.

http://eirionthera.com

#370

Name me the other companies using a unique melanin restoration technology please as I have yet to hear or see any. If you are referring to the marketing stuff they trying to scam you on amazon etc it’s totally different and just says that it can do this and that to try take your money. This company is raising funds for a large scale clinical trial to hopefully prove their method. So yeah totally different.

#371

I agree however on those other companies, Eirion being the most exciting as it involves hair growth and grey hair reversal. Hopefully they start there phase 1 soon and all goes well this could be out in next 5 years

#372

This is a interessing video about hair loss, you can also listen to it on google podcast if you want;

I tried 0,2mg fin / day for a month but stopped because of reduced S drive. I now use topical dutasteride, the capsules here in Belgium contain a sort of gel that I apply once a week on my scalp (4x0,5mg)

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#373

I’m still not convinced topical dutasteride actually works because of its molecular size. Topical finasteride obviously works because it’s molecule size is smaller and we see systemic reduction in DHT but there’s not many good studies on topical dutasteride.

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#374

Reparex, GR7 and Mayraki each claim they use a unique formula to restore melanin to the hair from the inside out on their websites.

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#375

Yeah exactly ‘claim’ it’s just taking their word for it and all the before and after pictures are fake. Think about it if those products actually naturally restored melanin from the root and reversed grey hair then it would be in the news and rushing off the shelves. Those companies don’t have any clinical studies to actually prove anything and of their bogus claims just marketing and money grabbing. YC lab is conducting a large clinical study to hopefully prove their product actually reverses grey hair from the root (if they succeed in funding) that’s why I have a different feeling about them. Until the large clinical trial results are out I’m not getting my hopes up though but fingers crossed they have something proper.

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#376

Hi Andy.
These products are actually a dye but they work differently, like the Just For Men shampoo for example.

The problem with YJ Lab is that they don´t explain how their method works and it seems that it is another product just like the ones that dhanny has mentioned.

Have you found any information besides the link news? It seems impossible to contact them.

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#377

At least tacromlimus and cyclosporin are already available as a reasonably cheap ointments… (as well as pimecrolimus)

I would suggest that someone with a graying beard tries one half of the face with one of these ointments

I could try but I haven’t used rapamycin for that long and I want to observe its effects first. Price for the 3 substances seems to be around 10-15 euros for 10-15g of ointments with a dose of 0.3-1mg/g

Sorces, and links please!

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#378

Any results/benefits to speak of?

#379

what do you mean by working differently? Actually, the GR7 product seems legit. I’m going to give it a try and will see… The ingredients also makes a lot of sense. Biotin, tyrosinase, gallic acid, etc.

#380

As you are also in Europe, I would try this test they do in Spain where they take a DNA sample and effectively test what products and combinations of products will be effective against your hair loss. As this is personalized for you, you can minimize side effects, not experiment on yourself, and get a tailored made topical solution with the effective ingredients that work for you based on the results. My dr in Spain did it for about 250 euros. Its called TrichoTest.

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