Suplementos para dormir: o que é mais eficaz, menos viciante e mais seguro?

[Alex]

I think Inmay have found something helpful for me.

I recently upped my dose of CBD to over 50 mg before bed and it helps me sleep more deeply. More deep sleep and less waking up.

[thelazydogsback]

I’m surprised nobody has mentioned rapamycin itself. For some reason my sleep is greatly improved the first night or two after I take my dose, which is bi-weekly on average.

Seems to be fairly consistent unlike all the other avenues I’ve tried which seem to work some nights and not others, other than pharmaceuticals like benzodiazepine-like drugs.
I should note that during the day i feel very relaxed and “zen” for a few days, but not low energy in any negative way and can still do any activity I want without issue.

I’m not sure if there’s an inverse relationship between mtor activation and sleep, but I also notice on the days that I do heavy muscle building workouts in the gym, like 90 minutes of exercises to failure, that rather than tiring me out, it keeps me up that night. But I suppose it’s more likely that that’s just cortisol sticking around? - but typically it will be anywhere from 6 to 12 hours after I work out before I go to sleep.

[Joseph_Lavelle]

Last night after my late afternoon rapa dose I slept through the night without bathroom breaks for the first time in 2 weeks.

[Alex]

Rapamycin is if anything stimulative for me. So unfortunately no help there for myself anyway.

[justaguest]

Has anyone tested the 8 Sleep mattress or a similar product and methodically measured changes in sleep metrics using Oura, Fitbit, or Whoop?

[AgentSmith]

I have an 8 sleep gen 3 pod+cover and see no correlation in my Oura ring data. If you wake up hot in the middle of the night, it will help that a lot, but it changes the feel of the bed to the extent that it causes me pain sometimes because of the stiffness. The newest version is supposed to be thinner and they claim they have solved that problem.

I wish I had tried a cheaper competitor like chilipad because 8 sleep is very pricy and I don’t use their fancy features (autopilot adjustments). Chilipad was out of stock when I was searching for a product, and Peter Attia was running a coupon deal, so I have the mediocre 8 sleep. Some people love it, though. Your mileage will vary.

[Beth]

I have the 8 sleep gen 3 pod cover, too. I like a VERY soft mattress, so I simply haven’t zipped it up and let it be a little loose. That way it has a softer and more flexible feel… I also did that so I can use an electric bed and not cause damage. Sharing that tip incase that helps!

I tried chilipad in order to have the machine under the bed for aesthetics. I have a very quiet house, so the noise drove me nuts and I couldn’t keep it. Fwiw, I have not refilled my 8 sleep with water for 6 months… you constantly have to fill chilipad … but, i loved that you can wash it and how flexible it is. If they came out with a quiet one, I’d get it in a heartbeat.

I’ve rarely looked, but on the handful of times I did, the stats seem pretty close to oura. With mine as loose as it is, I’m surprised it measures anything. I really just use my ring. I strictly use it for cooling,

[AgentSmith]

@Beth

like a VERY soft mattress, so I simply haven’t zipped it up and let it be a little loose. That way it has a softer and more flexible feel…

We do the same, but it’s still so much worse than our super comfortable mattress. But I do agree with the tip. I think it may depend on sleeper weight also. My wife is fine on it.

I do compare the 8 sleep stats to Oura, and it seems like they have actually tried to better match Oura over time. I still find Oura to be more accurate to the point that I never look at 8 sleep anymore.

[Beth]

That makes sense. It was once explained to me that I couldn’t find a mattress soft enough because I don’t sink in due to being on the lighter side… eureka! I also have a several inch uber smoochy topper under it (because I had it). Not sure if that helps or not? You could try a folded comforter under the pod cover as an experiment?

[AgentSmith]

You and my wife have the same challenges it sounds like.

I like your suggestion. I had the thought to put another thin, soft layer underneath but never tried it.

[RapAdmin]

How to sleep like a millionaire: a 5-part guide

Sleep is becoming the ultimate luxury item.

Biohackers swear by it. Longevity scientists love it.

But how to get more of it?

Peter Diamandis, a longevity investor and XPrize founder, uses a relatively elaborate system for getting better sleep. It’s an important element of his new longevity playbook, in addition to eating right and building muscle. Diet, exercise, and sleep are three health pillars that experts on aging tend to emphasize for just about everyone looking to improve their health and longevity.

Here are the 63-year-old millionaire’s five nonnegotiables when it comes to catching more Z’s.

Read the Full Business Insider Article: How to sleep like a millionaire: a 5-part guide

Short summary:

• Oura ring
• $2500 Eight Sleep Matress cover
• $35 Eye Mask https://mantasleep.com/
• mouth guard
• Good timing

[Deborah_Hall]

Felt terribly groggy much of the following day after taking 50 mg the night before. Works great for my husband though–

[Beth]

After sleeping a little over 4 hours last night, I have questions!!!

So… my sleep has been better lately, but most nights are 5:30-7 hours and maybe 1-2 nights per week are closer to 7:30-8 hours. Once every week or two, I will have an especially bad night of aprox 4 hours (I’m grateful because the bad nights used to be much more common!).

If I have couple sub 6:30 in a row, I’ll take a trazadone for more of a sure thing on that 3rd night. I did that last night, but my sure thing didn’t work!

I stopped my regular use of ambien years ago, once I discovered the sleep it provides isn’t restorative (what a sad day that was!), so I now only take one every 2-3 months when feeling really desperate or if I’m traveling and there is no other hope.

I can almost always fall asleep with no problem, but my issue is waking up too early.

My question is
In your opinion, is having only 4 hours of natural sleep (or even trazadone induced) healthier than having a longer sleep that is a combo of those same natural hours with the addition of ambien induced sleep. Meaning, after those 4 hours, I wake up and take an ambien in order to get another 3-4 hours for a total of 7-8.

I’ve assumed no sleep is healthier than ambien sleep, but have wondered?

PS.
I.
AM.
SO.
TIRED.

[John_Hemming]

This is all about sleep cycles and endogenous melatonin. I used to have this problem, but have now got to a much better state. Apart from sorting out basic Vitamin D and magnesium I use melatonin. I have tried some sleep meds, but they have generally been bad news.

Most days now I sleep sufficiently such that I am not tired in the afternoon. A couple of years ago (I am 64 now) I would be tired in the afternoon and need a nap at about 2 pm.

I think I would focus on improving sleep. One tool for this is a sleep tracker. It is important to remember that sleep cycles which are based upon the ultradian cycle govern getting back to sleep.

When you wake after say 4 hours you are probably in the sympathetic state. It will be hard then to get back to the parasympathetic state in which it is easy to sleep until the end of that cycle. Hence you should use a sleep tracker to work out when that is and take some melatonin before the end of the cycle so that it is systemic when the cycle restarts. You should then be able to get more natural sleep.

I need to get up at about 6am so I tend to go to bed around 8-9pm so that if I need to be awake during the night for 90 mins I will still get sufficient good quality sleep.

I do, however, use a lot of melatonin partially because I want the anti-oxidant effects that protect mitchondrial DNA from damage. (and other mitochondrial linked benefits).

More recently apart from the week I take Rapamycin I have sometimes been hitting in the 8-9 hour range from time to time as well as always over 6 hours actual sleep (ignoring time spent awake). I find this mildly surprising as I would have been happy to always get over 6 hours. However, I am not going to look a gift horse in the mouth.

[Beth]

Thanks John,

Lots to absorb and I’ll see if I can figure out my cycles. I do have an oura ring. I’ll be back with questions if I need help!

I had heard some influencers saying to be careful with melatonin, so I haven’t tried it. I am recently taking regular magnesium, in addition to my usual vit d.

I’m 58 and 109 pounds… based on that, would you mind tossing out a starting dose of melatonin for me to experiment with?

You mentioned your sleep schedule, and that is exactly what I adopted last year. I think it’s why I sleep so much better. I usually get up at aprox 6, so I discovered if I want a good chance to get enough hours in, I need to go to bed very early to compensate for the middle of the night coffee breaks I sometimes take. Over time, I think my body clock might just like this because my middle of the night breaks are fewer all the time

Thanks again!

[John_Hemming]

Melatonin is hard to calculate as different people respond in different ways to it. The main thing i am suggesting is taking it to get back to sleep. I started with small doses around 5-10mg, but have moved over a number of years up to taking very high doses, but that is more than just for sleep.

I would not drink coffee in the middle of the night. The caffeine will attach to the adenosine receptors and prevent sleep.

Perhaps post some of the sleep charts from Oura and I can explain how to see the sleep cycles.
Mine are around 90 mins. I think that is quite normal and others should expect roughly the same time period.

[Joseph_Lavelle]

@Beth I’ll be publishing my followup talk with Vyvyane Loh MD this weekend. She is an advocate for melatonin if you need help with sleep. I use extended release melatonin myself but nothing else. I won’t take supplements at night to avoid any issues (I do take rapa in afternoon because it makes me tired).

I’ll also share my personal experience with sleep improvement. I m not a doctor or a proclaimed expert. Ive listened to all the experts and tried everything. Everything helps a little. The only things that helped me a lot are:

(1) getting my circadian rhythm aligned with day and night (light and eating discipline)
(2) restoring my body’s ability to turn off (parasympathetic activation). This is singularly critical to going back to sleep when getting up to use bathroom at 2-3am (meditation, deep breathing, not indulging the impulse to do something interesting)

The longer you’ve had poor sleep, the longer it will take to get right. You have to unlearn many bad habits. But it is the only way, I believe. My opinion is that drugs are a crutch that keep you from learning the skill of sleeping well.

I’ve improved from 5.5 hours to 7-7.5 hours per night in 6 months. I’m aiming for 8 hours. Of course I have a bad night here or there. No stress about a bad night.

Good luck.

[John_Hemming]

I would add to what Joe says here. Breathing exercises can also help with getting into the parasympathetic state.

NSDR or Yoga Nidra is part of that as well as box breathing. You can see your heart rate go back down as you move out of the sympathetic state.

I think I can now sense the shift from sympathetic to parasympathetic which then preceeds going back to sleep.

I also use melatonin to stop me going into sympathetic. that involves taking it sublingually immediately on waking. I find a window of perhaps a minute in which it is possible to signal the body not to go into the Cortisol Awakening Response which is what you get with the sympathetic state.

Once you miss that window you probably need to wait until the next cycle comes along although it can be possible to sort this with meditation.

[Beth]

@John_Hemming
Sorry for the confusion… that was just my silly sense of humor… I called the time I am awake and can’t fall back to sleep a coffee break… except for a little chocolate, I try not to have any caffeine after 9am, and usually earlier!

And thanks for that offer! If I can’t figure it out today, I will post my oura charts for your generous help!

@Joseph_Lavelle

I’ll look forward to listening … and perfect timing!

I have things in my fullscript cart and perhaps I’ll add some melatonin.

I actually try to avoid taking anything other than progesterone after 5pm only to decrease the chances of waking up to use the bathroom…. That is often the kiss of death for me! It never occurred to me that some things have the potential to interfere with sleep, so I’m glad you brought that up.

And to your point, when I got off ambien, and then thc (which had taken it’s place), i had 6 months of very little sleep in order to just teach my body to do it on it’s own. The Eight Sleep cover has helped tremendously, in addition to the typical low/no lights before bed and dark drapes.

Unless I’m out being social (which isn’t that often because I know it hurts my sleep… but then again, being less social is also bad for longevity!) I stop eating anywhere between 3-5pm because it does help!

[John_Hemming]

The standard CBT things also count. If you have to use a phone before going to bed wear orange glasses that block the blue light that prevents the Intrinsically Photosenitive Retinal Ganglial cells from allowing melatonin production.