#143

Cabanis is obviously two types sativa and indica. One type helps you sleep, another one helps you stay awake. Tried (about 5 years ago) the sleep one and it did work 100% of time. I would sleep within 15 minutes of taking it. However, i hated the way I felt in the morning. I felt it was very inflammatory (even though I never inhaled more than three times, and that was enough to make me sleep. One joint would literally last me more than couple weeks).

I almost never smoke or vape cannabis. I use a combination of tinctures (sublingually) or edibles. Tinctures work well under the tongue and act to give more of the head high you get with smoking, compared to edibles which are generally stronger and give you a body high. I’ve found the best of both worlds is to go with a water-soluble, nano-emulsion gummy; because it is water soluble, it bypasses the first-pass metabolism that usually converts THC to 11-Hydroxy-THC that gives edibles more potency and different effects.

btw, sex is from another planet (as in good) when doing cannabis, but not stoned completely as some do, but rather if you want to have the greatest sex ever just puff it twice (not more) about 10 minutes before the action, and you’ll be on cloud nine. LOL

Yes, can confirm this benefit! :laughing:

#144

What app do you use to check sleep metrics from Apple Watch?

1 Like
#145

I use Apple Health, the default Apple software, tried several other trackers but I think this is the most simple and this review gave me enough trust that its tracking results are comparable to EEG device.

1 Like
#146

Apple battery sucks, have to change daily sometimes twice per day. For me it’s garmin watches where you charge once weekly or ten days (assuming you don’t use gps). I just ordered one yesterday and will come in next week. An old Fitbit did a great job also and needed charging once a week or so. I am longing for the day that apple makes a watch that lasts 10 days and up. I barely use my Apple Watch any longer.

1 Like
#147

I have Apple fast charger and it charges my watch in 20 minutes or so (from 35 to 97% last three percent take another 10 minutes but I rarely bother and it is never drained more than 30-35% in 24h). I usually charge it while I take a shower and brush my teeth. It became a habit. I have my charger in the bathroom. But I agree it is a nuisance and I would prefer a longer battery life too.

1 Like
#148

Thanks. I might try this and compare to my Oura and Whoop- when I looked at it four years ago it did not seem like Apple software was that good, but that is a long time ago now.

1 Like
#149

I have to say that I have been using cannabis for years effectively for sleep. I have epilepsy and follow a ketogenic diet but I believe the cannabis helps as well. I also suffer from Interstitial Cystitis, which only affects me at night and just wrecks my sleep. But what I found is that edibles do not have the same effect as vaping, and for me, vaping is the only way I don’t have that hangover effect the next morning. The second key was balancing out the THC, which IMO is way too potent on its own. In the past I used a mix of 50/50 THC/CBD. Currently I am experimenting with a new product here in Spain, CBG, and some THCa that I picked up from the states on my last visit. (It’s legal in Texas, non-psychoactive.) I find that around 20-30% THC, 30-40% CBD with the other two (CBG, TCa) mixed in seems to be my sweet spot. I have had sleep issues since I was a child, now at 62 I’m sleeping better most nights than I have since I can remember. I also follow the usual lifestyle habits evoked - cool room temp, avoid blue light, no food after 7pm, etc. Regarding quantification, my Oura ring reports that my REM is high on most nights, Deep is high usually only on days I lift weights, and as long as I can keep my room cool my RHR and HRV are low 40s and mid 20s, respectively, unless my body temp is raised. I also avoid violence on TV or stressful thoughts before bed, as it seems to affect my dreams. Recently I incorporated 3g glycine a few hours before bedtime and I was able to reduce the amount of cannabis most nights. I also concur about the comments on sex and cannabis. I have realized that cannabis doesn’t work for everyone but I am glad I have it. My partner doesn’t need anything to sleep like a baby and doesn’t follow any sleep hygiene habits whatsoever. I try not to be too jealous, LOL.

4 Likes
#150

I definitely agree on the need to balance the THC with something. I have tried CBG, because it has some very interesting properties compared to other cannabinoids, as an agonist of the α-2 receptor and an antagonist of the 5-HT1A receptor. It didn’t sit well with me because of the adrenergic activity, but I can see how that might be beneficial for some due to it reducing sympathetic nervous system activity.

Have you tried CBN with the THC yet? I have found that they synergize quite well, since CBN promotes drowsiness for me and anecdotally for others.

I definitely agree with you on the edibles versus vaping. Though edibles can help me stay asleep longer, I do find that there is some slight residual mood effects the next day that doesn’t come with inhaling. I do use a dry flower vaporizer occasionally, but I can’t find a lot of research backing up the safety of vaporizing versus ingestion; clearly it is significantly better than smoking (i.e. combustion), but I suspect it is not as safe as using edibles or tinctures. Have you seen any long-term issues or symptoms associated with vaping? Are you using dry, whole flower, or do you use cannabis oil or distillate?

#151

I would like to try CBN, but it isn’t available here in Spain for purchase. I vape flower, although I do make my own oil for travel or to use topically. RE: harm, I too have not been able to find robust studies on whether vaping flower is harmful, and of course that worries me enough that I am always trying to take the minimum dose possible. However, I can say that subjectively it seems to actually decrease inflammation in my lungs (and my body) if I eat something or breath pollution that causes congestion or makes me cough. It can actually stop a coughing fit. It can also reduce seizure (excitation) activity in my brain. I have been vaping nightly for years, at least 9, and so far I have no issues breathing. I tape my mouth at night to breathe through my nose and my Oura ring reports good breathing, usually 98%. I regularly ruck and hike, and my lungs seem to be working better than most people my age. My pet theory is that the anti-inflammatory properties of cannabis reduce the harm of vaping. But who knows. If I could sleep well without it, or not enjoy the calming effect on my brain, I would not vape at all. But I imagine that we all here in this particular chat about sleep issues would rather not have to take something to sleep if given the choice. For now, good quality sleep is more important to me than the possible harm. And it keeps me off all medication. BTW, my subjective experience is that CBD really attenuates and/or modulates the effects of THC. If one is sensitive to THC, then a good N=1 would be to add in the THC in incremental doses to find your sweet spot. Over the years I have found I need less THC to sleep, and more CBD, with the CBG and THCa adding an entourage effect that is similar to having a glass of wine :slight_smile:

2 Likes
#152

If I ever feel that I wanted to do weed, i actually make it into a tea but you have to first put one teaspoon of olive oil (or other fat) and get the oil real hot and leave it in hot/boiling oil for about 5 minutes and then add it to your favorite tea. It has some interestingly different effect than when smoking it, but either way smoking or making it into a tea proved to be inflammation inducing for me the next morning when i wake up. That’s why i almost never use it, unless I really can’t sleep, and then it is God send, you basically have no control over your sleep, basically you just buzz of without knowing you are about to fall asleep. Or saying it differently you will have real hard time staying awake. In other words, weed (indica) is by far the best ever sleep aid. I had even tried like 30mgs of melatonin and still awake (rarely happens btw), but the minute i puff the sucker couple times, or I drink my potion/tea I’m dead asleep for next eight hours. As previously stated I do NOT like the way i feel the next morning, otherwise i would always use weed as a sleep aid. If someone tries it and they feel fine the next morning, I truly believe there is nothing that even comes close to weed to help one sleep (only 2-3puffs though, doing more it messes you up-you become a zombie)

#153

I definitely agree with this, although I find that CBD doesn’t sit well with me at high doses. I suspect that this is due to its agonism of the 5-HT1A receptor and the fact that I need an SSRI for anxiety. Over time I could see how this could benefit someone and act like an anti-depressant (similar to buspirone), but busprirone doesn’t work for me either.

Relatedly, an even more potent modulator of THC is actually THCV. At low doses, THCV antagonizes the CB-1 receptor and partly reverses THC intoxication. After learning the hard way with edibles several times, I keep a bottle of THCV oil around in case I accidentally get too high; it takes about 10-15 minutes to kick in under the tongue and it has brought me back from severe anxiety and cannabis shakes before.

Also, I ran across this study about CBD in relation to epilepsy that might be interesting.

Thanks for sharing your experience! It is very informative and helpful to me!

#154

As you said, this study discusses the role of CBD as a 5-HT1A receptor agonist (and various other mechanisms a bit over my head) as a plausible therapeutic agent for neurological issues such as epilepsy. It could explain my affinity to CBD. Thank you for sharing.

#155

Madre mia, it would appear that THCV potentially has modulating effects on metabolism and satiety. It restored insulin sensitivity in obese rats. I would love to try some although personally I have never had severe anxiety and shakes from cannabis. It does say that it could possibly boost energy and that is intriguing. Δ9-Tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV): a commentary on potential therapeutic benefit for the management of obesity and diabetes | Journal of Cannabis Research | Full Text

#156

Thank you, I learned a lot too.

#157

I got my Garmin vivo 4S three days ago, and using it three days it is still showing 70% battery left. I will NEVER EVER buy another smart watch, unless the battery life is at least five days. For some reason I don’t mind powering up the phone daily, but I hate to have to do that for a watch. Having to power the watch only once a week or so is so convenient, even if I travel which is usually 3-5 days, I don’t have to worry about battery life.

1 Like
#158

Just wanted to point out in the paper you cited, it states:

  1. Acute exposure/short-term use: With short-term use, it is suggested that there is more sleep consolidation, reduced sleep onset latency (SOL), increased total sleep time, and decreased wake after sleep onset (WASO). Acute administration of THC has also been associated with decreased REM sleep and increased slow wave sleep (SWS), similar to some animal studies [30, 31]. However, the effects on slow wave sleep and total sleep time are not persistent (Fig. ​(Fig.1b1b).

  2. Long-term use: In contrast to the above, chronic administration of THC has been shown to decrease SWS, suggesting the possibility of tolerance with its long-term use. Effects of the chronic use of THC on REM stage are non-uniform, unlike SWS effects seen in various human and animal studies [32–34]. There is also suggestion of increased sleep disruption due to increased SOL, increased WASO, and reduced TST [35]. A polysomnography-based study demonstrated these effects by evaluating objective and subjective measures of sleep in current cannabis users. The majority of participants showed decreased overall sleep time (78%), with increased SOL (>30 min), poor sleep efficiency (<85%), and increased WASO (54.7). Increased REM sleep latency (average 114.5 min) as well as decreased percentage of REM sleep (17.7%) were also noted (Fig. ​(Fig.1c1c).

  3. Withdrawal effects: With cannabis withdrawal, there are associated sleep disturbances and vivid dreams. A study comparing different PSG characteristics in prior heavy marijuana users demonstrated lower total sleep time (TST), decreased SWS and decreased REM latency as compared to controls (Fig. ​(Fig.1d).1d). This group also had longer sleep onset and worse sleep efficiency than the control group, though the study was limited by lack of baseline PSG data in both groups [36]. Another study also showed an increase in periodic limb movements (PLMs) after abrupt cessation of heavy marijuana use [37–39]. Withdrawal-related sleep disturbances have been found to be worse among heavy users and usually occur in about 24–72 h after discontinuation and can persist up to 6–7 weeks. Given these duration-dependent variable effects on sleep architecture, the role of cannabinoids in sleep disorders remains under investigation.

As someone who studies sleep, I would argue there is still a lot we do not know about the therapeutic effect of Cannabis and sleep.
Cannabinoids impair normal firing of neurons located in the suprachiasmatic nucleus in mice and may affect the entrainment of the circadian clock to light. 27 C
In humans, cannabis can result in an increase in stage 3 non-rapid eye movement or slow wave sleep (SWS), but this has not been shown in all studies as described below, and the effects on rapid eye movement (REM) sleep are variable.4,5.

Cannabis shows most promise at improving sleep in patients with pain-related disorders, as compared to those with neurologic, psychiatric, or sleep disorders, and show no significant effects on healthy participants’ sleep.
In healthy populations and certain non-cannabis using clinical populations, CBD had greater anxiolytic effects without prominent effects on sleep.

I think most of the literature is very mixed, and most of the time their is negative effects associated with THC use and sleep vs CBD use and sleep.

3 Likes
#159

Thank you so much for the clarification! I will update my prior post above.

I should also have made clear that I am coming to this perspective as someone for whom the tradeoff is between disrupted sleep and less disrupted sleep due to cannabis use. In particular, I have found benefit from a further reduction of REM sleep, on top of that provided by SSRIs, to be beneficial, regardless of the effect on long-term SWS. I have also begun to cycle between cannabis and other agents such as valerian. And, I can definitely confirm that withdrawal is marked by an increase in vivid dreaming.

I can appreciate, however, that for healthy individuals with normal sleep, cannabis may not provide the benefit to them that it does to people for whom sleep is already significantly disrupted.

If you have more studies on sleep and cannabis than the one I referred to, I would be interested to read more about the literature on this. Are you an M.D. or sleep researcher?

Thanks again for your post.

#160

He is our local PhD student studying sleep.

1 Like
#161

What benefit do you have in mind? I thought it is necessary to maintain balance between NREM deep sleep and REM.

#162

I am currently finishing my PhD( I am starting my 4th year). My area of focus is sleep and circadian rhythms.My current focus is on the interaction of sleep and stress along with the relationship between histone acetylation(epigenetic modification) and sleep/stress.
You can look at pubmed for more ideas on cannabis and sleep interaction. Look for literature reviews if you want to really dive deep into the area. I believe I have talked about it before on the forum, but sleep is very complex. There is no consensus in the field as to what exactly it is that sleeps and why we sleep. There is this whole problem of global vs local sleep(which you can look into) coupled with the fact that sleep still occurs even if you lesion or injure any brain region involved in sleep. This makes the idea of sleep very complicated but also fascinating for me.

7 Likes