I did not notice a decrease in energy with low-normal testosterone, but it did effect libido and muscle mass retention on a weight loss phase. Enclomiphene restored both. Afaict, enclomiphene works as advertised.
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Tim
#153
Taken under medical supervision, clomid lowered my Total T from 244 to 185. Enclomiphene, on the other hand, went too far in the other direction, raising my T to 1200 but also increasing everything else–mood, energy, libido, and aggression. I did not like the aggressiveness. I’m now on testosterone gel, which keeps everything at a moderate but effective level.
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It’s a dose issue generally as I have some men on as little as 3 mg daily of Enclomiphene. The DHT needs periodic tracking, as does estradiol. I’ve seen some individuals jump in with 25 mg daily of Enclomiphene … that might work out well, or might have a lot of side effects. I typically start with 1/4th of an enlcomiphene 25 mg so 6.25 mg daily and then recheck everything in 4 weeks. It is reasonable to check an FSH and LH before treatment. If the Testosterone is quite low and the LH is already plenty high, it’s unlikely that clomid or enclomiphene will work, and is likely to cause problems.
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LukeMV
#155
@DrFraser
How do you feel about taking enclomiphene in addition to TRT? Instead of HCG
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I think a long enough time on TRT will render enclomiphene ineffective. HCG acts downstream and can still work.
Either one will work and can be monitored. Enclomiphene is cheaper and more consistent in being able to access. I’ve found Enclomiphene and HCG from India is likely not real - I don’t know the % of cases where this is the case - so make sure you have a good verified source or get through an appropriate pharmacy.
Gonadorelin is an agent I’m using more that increases LH and FSH and one can easily monitor if it is working. This is often used for men whom I’m supporting whatever testicular function they have, but not completely independent of testosterone use, or trying to wean off, or if not on testosterone and are low, using it to increase their testosterone. Much like enclomiphene, but looks a bit cleaner and targeted in its method of increasing LH and FSH.
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LukeMV
#158
Fantastic info. Gonadorelin and enclomiphene both increase testicle size too I would imagine? I’ll admit I haven’t gone too far down those wormholes. I know much more about HCG since it’s been around longer and have personal experience with it.
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There is more to know, but basically Gonadorelin and Enclomiphene both boost LH (testosterone production in the testes) and FSH (sperm production in the testes) from the pituitary gland.
HCG is an LH analogue, so the testes see it as LH and thus produce more testosterone.
This is naturally dependent on the testes being capable with adequate LH.
It is generally good practice to first check LH/FSH/Prolactin as abnormal levels can warrant an MRI to make sure there is not an issue with the pituitary. This is a rare situation, but has to be considered.
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Jay
#160
Here is a follow-up to my use of enclomiphene citrate. It’s been at least two months since I switched from enclomiphene citrate 20 mg to enclomiphene citrate 10 mg daily. At 20 mg, TT was 1363 ng/DL and FT (calculated, not Direct) was 94 pg/DL. I suspected the calculated FT was wrong since I noticed no subjective difference from before the time I tried enclomiphene. My latest test used the Direct test for FT which I believe is much more accurate than the calculated version. Current numbers are TT = 1315 ng/DL and FT = 7 pg/ml. It’s strange that TT is still quite high. However, the FT is a more reasonable number at 7 than the earlier 94 and goes along with why I have not noticed any subjective difference since the time before I was taking enclomiphene Citrate. Even when I was taking 20 mg Enclomiphene Citrate daily the FT probably would not have been over 14 pg/ml which is still quite low and would account for why I’ve noticed no subjective improvements. As noted before, enclomiphene Citrate will also raise FSH and LH, but I don’t have those numbers in this case. I do however (as expected) show a rise to 45.5 pg/ml for estradiol which is slightly above normal but not a bad thing at this level. It’s something to be watched. I don’t have a current number for SHBG, but from past experience it is likely still very high. So, it appears that the SHBG is the “boogeyman” that I’ll have to tackle.
Now, of course the other two approaches would be straightforward TRT or a suitable peptide. But, I just don’t like the idea of getting a shot every day or so. I’d rather take a few pills.
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Shady
#161
Clomiphene increases SHBG which is why you don’t see the same response/benefit as T injections.
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You can have it applied transdermeral. Or, a weekly shot. You seem to be describing micro-dosing a small shot every other day? Then, yes, more shots.
I’ve done once weekly for 6 years. About 312 shots in all. Sounds worse giving the full count.
I am very satisfied with high normal… not steroid abuse levels. Great health benefits for the aging man. Like everything on here, probably best starting at 50. I started at 60.
I was consistently at 350 to 400 on my blood panel.
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Once a week is generally fine. Lots of TRT influencers try to urge you to do as many shots per week as you can tolerate but I found any more than 2 to be stressful. Once was ok. Daily cream application is even better.
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Curious, why you say best started at 50 versus waiting to 60.
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Because we now understand major aging spikes at 44 years and 60 years. Once you hit those changes… I think it is harder to reverse.
Therefore, might be better to start at 50… maybe even 40.
Massive biomolecular shifts occur in our 40s and 60s, Stanford Medicine researchers find
He is using enclomiphene citrate, not clomiphene. Are these the same?
Your Estradiol has increased because of your increase in testosterone. Increased Estrogenic activity could also lead to a rise in SHBG. Have you been prescribed aromatase inhibitor like anastrozole to lower Estradiol yet?
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Has anyone here used TRT cream? I’m experimenting swapping from scrotal application to shoulder. Might be placebo but I feel more energy on shoulder application. From what I’ve read there is more 5AR on the scrotal skin, so if that is true theoretically by applying to the shoulder I would have more testosterone and less DHT possibly giving more energy.
From what I’ve read that is true, but I’m speaking to someone who says that is a myth and that 5AR activity is the same across all skin.
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Why would testosterone injections increase free testosterone when you’re already measuring 1300+?
It sounds like you should take something to bring down SHBG. Boron might help.
Do you have a source for this?
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I used T cream a few years back. After applying it to the scrotum for a while, I checked my DHT levels out of curiosity because my prostate problems seemed to be getting worse. My DHT was 160 ng/dL (well over the reference range of 30-85) even though I was taking 5mg daily finasteride (!!!)
I stopped applying to the scrotum after that, but I still ended up needing a TURP surgery to unclog my prostate.
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