#21

Yes, a testosterone level of 2000 is a steroid cycle. That will increase estradiol and DHT levels pretty high and potentially cause other side effects in the long term that’s probably not good for longevity.

On the other hand, a low testosterone level (not totally sure which lab number would be considered “low” though) also increases risk of diseases. Free Testosterone is a better lab marker.

Like with most things, too much of a good thing becomes a bad thing, so optimal should be the target. It’s hard to say what testosterone level is “optimal”, and there is debate over whether that number changes once TRT is introduced though.

Let’s not forget an optimal testosterone level also improves quality of life.

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#22

It’s a choice… and there are many ways to do it. I have been on TRT for 6 years now, I am 66 … my only regret is not having started earlier as it gave me so much healthspan wise than any other interventions I had tried by the time I started. I tried everything… food, exercise, nothing worked but oh boy, when I started TRT, another life started for me…

All my markers improved. I was able to exercise without extenuating myself and most of all without injuring myself… Recuperation was solid, sleep improved, joint pain went away (propably the estradiol boost) …

How can this be bad for longevity? I might be dead by now if it was not for this, my life was basically not worth living much…

A few things I learned in those 6 years… dose and schedule is everything. I ran too high in the beginning although not high enough to get bp or hematocrit issues but still too high… My best results are with low almost microdosing every two days… This does not spike my levels to supra physiological levels and keeps me in a normal/mid level range throughout… I also do HCG which I cycle in and out. Here again, microdosing every two days… It’s a lot of injections, but the outcome is worth it and removes the stress of a large bolus of T once or twice a week which spikes your levels too high leading to more aromatization and I think stress…

I think it should be in the tool. kit of every man (or woman) as we age. I don’t mind dying, it is inevitable, but I do mind how I live and I want to have pep in my step… nothing puts some pep in a man like T (when needed naturally) … YMMV …

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#23

Anyone have experience using the online TRT providers?

#24

According to a 2012 study published in Current Biology, eunuchs, or castrated men, live 14–19 years longer than other men, with an average lifespan of 70 years. The study analyzed the genealogy records of 81 eunuchs who worked in the Korean imperial court during the Chosun Dynasty, which ruled from the 14th to early 20th centuries. Three of the eunuchs lived to be over 100 years old, which is at least 130 times higher than the current rate in developed countries.

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#25

You make a compelling argument … still not going for this treatment! Will go for alternative routes to 100 years.

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#26

Thanks - this is the path that i am on at age 70, HRT for 7-8 years and just started rapamycin. I have had to back the Free T down due to feeling angry and agressive, but healing, sexual, activity, and overall health was mantained. i also use a thyroid supplement.

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#27

I found a supplier for Enclomiphene Citrate, a little pricey compared to the India suppliers but they seem legitimate:

I am going to to order some and see how it goes, seems like a good alternative to needles. I reached out to Jagdish who has been very reliable for Rap, he sent me a quote for a very good price on “Enclomisign , Enclomiphene”, but @desertshores received this and believed it is really Clomid instead.

I asked an AI search engine to give me the molecular formula and this is what it found: The molecular formula for Enclomiphene Citrate is C32H36ClNO8. That is the same formulation listed from the supplier so I’m hopeful it’s legit.

Starting out I plan to use this 2 times a week 12.5mg per dose, along with the supplement and DHEA protocol I listed in my previous post. Also, I’m adding DIM to the stack on days when I take DHEA. So rotoate the Enclomiphine/DHEA/Supplements on a 6 day cycle, day 7 is for Rap only.

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#28

My husband spoke with his endocrinologist and saw his urologist again. It was agreed that he’d try Clomid first, at a dose of 25 mg on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. He’ll retest his hormone levels again in 3 months and see how he’s feeling. If Clomid doesn’t work well after a reasonable trial, he’ll explore TRT next.

Prescribed off label like this, Clomid is not covered by insurance. But 30 of the 50 mg tabs are only $115-$140 at Cost Plus Drugs or with a GoodRx coupon.

Thank you all for your insights and opinions.

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#29

Not sure if posting websites or references is allowed, so I sent you a PM.

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#30

Age 70, I take it primarily to stave off (successfully) Osteoporosis since I can no longer take bisphosphonates (Fosamax). T works where the fosomax barely moved the needle.
I likely should take more as I am losing muscle mass due to too much inactivity.

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#31

Can anyone provide me a study that shows TRT decreases lifespan? I’m talking about TRT doses getting men in reference rage of 500-1000 not bodybuilder range of 6000+.

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#32

Check into Clomid thoroughly because it worked for me a few months and then stopped working. When it stopped unbenounced to me my T dropped dangerously low.

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#33

Wouldn’t Clomid act to stimulate existing Leydig cells to produce more T, but in older men, they are diminished so they can’t produce sufficiently to boost T? FSH rises to get the machine going but the workers just aren’t in the factory.

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#34

@Daph

Much cheaper in India, a small fraction of that price.

#35

@RufusDawes

i ordered some from Receptor Chem and it worked too well.

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#36

@RufusDawes

Order it cheap from India. The gel.

#37

Thank you I appreciate it!

Regarding Clomid, from my research it has undesirable side effects possible they call the “clomid crazies”, so I will be interested to see how the 3x per week user doing with this… I got a quote for $2.80/10 50mg pills for Enclomisign which @desertshores believed is really Clomid. I’ll be getting the Enclomiphene Citrate from Recptor Chem, plan to take it 2x per week 12mg, alternating with the DHEA and Supplements for a 6 day cycle.

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#38

It is cheap from India, but it’s questionable what you are getting… Enclomiphene Citrate or Clomid. The former has very few side effects while Clomid is a wild card in terms undesirable side effects and overall effectiveness.

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#39

I grilled one of the Indian pharmacists about whether this is Enclomiphene Citrate (EC) or Clomid, and I am confident that Enclomisign and a couple of other variants are Clomid. This is because Clomid includes EC and something else. When you look at the ingredients, you can see that it is NOT just EC.

Now this is a bit non-scientific, but I read through a few body-building forums, and they have not nice things to say about Clomid. Crap forming in your eye’s aqueous humor, mood swings, other things. But…no issues with EC.

I agree with the intermittent dosing. I take it every third day, 20mg. So that is a BIT more than 2X week. My T level has increased from about 515 to 690. I am content with that.

I have been getting my EC from PureRawz because I want pill form.

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#40

I bet that if they could just put my brain in a jar I would live longer as well.

No thanks.

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