#81

I took it with a ml dropper. At 1100, the sides were overwhelming. I took such a high dose because I was coming off doctor-prescribed clomiphene, which dropped my T from 300 to 200. So I wasn’t expecting much.

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#82

I used it for a while when off trt. I bought empty capsules off amazon and filled them with the syringe from receptorchem, never tasted the enclo

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#83

Recently saw this article, thought it was interesting and related to topic although many here will already be familiar with some points in it:

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#84

“Amy Killen, M.D., one of Blokes’ clinicians.”

One of our own!
@AmyK

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#85

I did. It had a distinctive taste. Could tell you if a batch was a little off.

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#86

so i think low testosterone is generally pro ageing . castration is anti ageing but it also lowers FSH & LH , whereas low testosterone (& estrogen) can be associated with higher LH & FSH . correct me if im clearly incorrect on something .

but all this aside , testosterone does NOT decrease with age . its a myth that is very popular but theres always been myths & there still r . source :

image
image1920×1179 188 KB

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#87

High testosterone is associated with toxic masculinity. The most aggressive and most violent prisoners have higher levels than the more complacent.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/019188699400177T

#88

I don’t know the basis for this image, but it is certainly different from the mass of literature I’m aware of. Additionally, we have declines in young men, which will continue to decrease, probably due to metabolic syndrome, BPA’s/PFA’s.
Here is one discussion of that: https://www.urologytimes.com/view/testosterone-levels-show-steady-decrease-among-young-us-men

This discussion from 2001, which naturally doesn’t account for the decline we are now seeing in younger men, shows a reasonable pattern of the 1% decline, on average per year from age 30 years on. I think we are seeing worse starting points, and many that are having bigger declines. The point made in this article, as it is reasonably balanced is whether we see much decline in the “Healthy” males … probably less so, but the typical American continues to get less healthy.
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/86/2/724/2841070

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#89

When 17a estradiol is used, high testosterone levels appear to be pro-longevity.
I don’t know why anyone in their right mind would choose castration over taking the stuff that’s already part of a hairloss topical.

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#90

But both the low testosterone and high testosterone groups were criminals in your study.

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#91

You imply that higher testosterone is the cause of bad male behavior. I think you need to keep the context in mind. The cited study looks only at CRIMINALS. If it had looked at firefighters, probably the ones that heroically saved lives had higher testosterone. Is that “toxic masculinity?” I don’t think associating a naturally occurring hormone with antisocial behavior while ignoring the social context (in this case prison) is particularly helpful nor accurate.

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#92

100% of high estrogen women found in prison are criminals. Coincidence? I think not!

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#93

A prison is a microcosm, as self-contained as a test tube. The results of the study–that high testosterone is correlated with aggressive and violent behavior–apply to any number of scenarios, from sports and the military to street crime and domestic violence.

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#94

Estriol inhibits LH & FSH (inhibition of those hormones would be good according to Jeff Bowles)

#95

I wonder if testosterone is declining due to worse “health” or if it’s moreso due to epigenetic inheritance to blunt population growth . In theory high calorie “unhealthy” diets would increase testosterone in the youth

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#96

I believe it is mainly the western diet and what they put in it such various chemicals. It had started to drop a while back where i was eating a lot junk food such muffins and other processed foods but it returned to normal with whole foods and exercise and losing weight. I wonder however if for those that the sole purpose of high T is to facilitate sex, would be better to take Cialis and take care of that department, while keeping the T low and supposedly reap the benefits of longevity while having low T.

#97

I was looking at some rat studies. In the following one, both castration and reproduction lead to an increase in maximum lifespan, but not median lifespan.

Neither castration nor access to females influenced median lifespan in male mice, but maximal lifespan was increased by either castration or reproduction when compared to intact males housed in male groups (standard male housing conditions).

Access to females and early life castration individually extend maximal but not median lifespan in male mice - PMC (nih.gov)

And the next study also saw this effect, but the castrated group had a less pronounced longevity effect compared to the exercised, mated and underfed mice.

he male groups were: (a) exercised, (b) mated, (c) castrated, (d) underfed and (e) control (untreated). The females (f) were untreated.
The mean life span in days was: (a) 859, (b) 840, (c) 817, (d) 885, (e) 727 and (f) 849. The differences between the control males (e) and all the other groups were highly significant (P < 0·01) except for the castrates (P < 0·05).

Environmental effects on longevity in the male rat: Exercise, mating, castration and restricted feeding - ScienceDirect

So, if you want to sacrifice your healthspan for a potential small increase in lifespan, keep your testosterone low. But as with the low-protein diet, you likely will never reach that potential lifespan because frailty with get you.
Unless someone wants to transition into becoming a woman, it seems utterly foolish to keep their testosterone low. Rather, drive it as high as you can and take 17a-estradiol (and 5ari for good measure).

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#98

Interesting… I wonder if there is a level that is actually too high. I’m inclined to think that we should aim for whatever it was the highest when young (naturally). I think mine was around 780 as an example. So, If I artificially make it go to 1200 (for example) could that be dangerous or have unwanted side effects since my body was not made to handle/have that much T, just thinking out loud.

Plus, I wonder if people that use ED drugs (Cialis etc) to help them engage in sexual activity, doesn’t that in itself eventually increase their T levels. I thought the act itself will increase the level of T (meaning the T level is high or higher when a man is involved in sexual activity), and if done regularly most likely than not a man’s body will start to adjust and produce plenty of T on its own?, just a thought again.

And, why would one need to take 17a-estradiol if high on T? Doesn’t that beat the purpose so to speak.

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#99

Because that is what produced the longevity effect seen in the ITPs study, which only occured in uncastrated male mice.

Longer lifespan in male mice treated with a weakly estrogenic agonist, an antioxidant, an α-glucosidase inhibitor or a Nrf2-inducer - PubMed (nih.gov)
Acarbose, 17-α-estradiol, and nordihydroguaiaretic acid extend mouse lifespan preferentially in males - PubMed (nih.gov)
Male lifespan extension with 17-α estradiol is linked to a sex-specific metabolomic response modulated by gonadal hormones in mice - PubMed (nih.gov)

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#100

I’m not sure why high calorie “unhealthy” diets would increase testosterone in the young. Generally the lower your body fat and healthier your diet the higher your testosterone.

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