The tide turns on vo2max?

[AgentSmith]

Just reproduce their method (on a treadmill with a polar chest strap or similar) and use the prediction equation, I think. I plugged it into Excel to play with it.

I want to see how it compares to a Cooper 12 min run test.

[Dr.Bart]

@Davin8r

One important distinction in the 3-zone vs 5-zone model would be that the 5-zone model claims that very little happens in their zone 1, and that zone 2 is where much of the “magic” happens, so it doesn’t really count the zone 1 (out of 5) as being very important towards training gains, whereas the “zone 1” of the 3-zone model apparently does (low intensity walking, anything other than being a couch potato basically?). They go very in-depth in several of that Attia podcasts about the unique adaptations that occur in “zone 2” of the 5-zone model.

I honestly searched for any actual studies that define the bottom heart zone for the the “magic” and I couldn’t find any. I suppose you can measure the lactate, but again not sure if they are good outcome studies. The only way to lock in on a bullseye power output would be to use a erg on indoor trainer which is very mundane, good for watching Netflix.
Any other activity our HR will oscillate quite a bit… so why would evolution increase our mitochondrial output only if we perform exactly at a certain perimeter. It seems very counter-intuitive.

[Joseph_Lavelle]

Another “thing” in this topic is fatmax, meaning the level of effort/ power in which an individual athlete burns the maximum amount of fat (calories not percentage of total). The idea is to increase this over time (increase the power at which the highest amount of fat is burned). When an athlete is burning fat, he is using oxygen to burn it. The more oxygen used the better (less glucose burned anaerobically).

A lactate meter is getting at this. Lumen is getting at this (badly I’d guess). A metabolic cart (vo2max testing device) is calculating this very accurately. An untrained athlete will have a very low fatmax. Exercising above fatmax is stressful. Usually fatmax is in zone 1 (of 5) unless very fit (per Alan Couzens). Fatmax is the place to spend the bulk of your training I what I believe to be true.

[L_H]

The “zones’” seem to vary wildly from graphic to graphic.
My understanding of zone 2 based on Attia was about 60% of max hear rate.

[ageless64]

This is a great interview on the value of exercise. At the end there is reasoned discussion on risks of “extreme” exercise.

Dr. Benjamin Levine: How Exercise Prevents & Reverses Heart Aging

[Barnabas]

I agree. I thought it was engaging and informative.

[Jazzy]

I think your grandma living to 99 was awesome. However, you cannot use one person to determine how a population should live

[Joseph_Lavelle]

Dr Levine is very intelligent and he has investigated many aspects of physiology that are important to the human athlete (all of us). I interviewed him a year ago with a question about excessive exercise. Peter Attia had recently (at that time) had a doctor on his show talking about the perils of excessive exercise. Dr Levine disagreed. His most surprising revelation was about AFib: caused by heart hypertrophy in athletes, some of whom are prone to a particular area of growth that causes the electrical signal distortion

#88 -- How to get a strong heart for performance and health (& much more)...

[Danlalane]

Well. I got myself a 50th birthday present and had a DexaFit scan and VO2 max test. If you haven’t had your VO2 tested it is quite an experience running on a treadmill with a mask on (uphill). I do HIIT training on the treadmill and Peloton every other day. I was disappointed with my results. I have some more work to do. Weight, steady state running and HIIT are best ways to improve I was told at the DexaFit center.

[Joseph_Lavelle]

What is measured improves, right? This is great info. I just got my Dexa bone and body scan done. I’ll post it later today.

[Danlalane]

Cool, I did that too. Good data. I scored better here.

[Dr.Bart]

@Dr.Bart

There are 3, 5, 6 and 7 zone models used, it’s very confusing and may be useful for professional sports.

Dr. Seiler proposed very simple 3 zone model
Zone 1 - under AeT
Zone 2 the in between
Zone 3 - over AnT

Seiler zone model is much easier and relates well to his studies.

[belshazz]

This chart is way off. Heart rate Zones are much too low.

[LukeMV]

This is the most elite exercise longevity video that has ever been released. This video should be mandatory viewing and shown to schools all over the world.

[adssx]

@RapAdmin

easily estimated via one of the newer sports watches that tracks Vo2Max (Garmin, Apple, Coros, etc.), or via the Cooper running test

Cooper test is a poor estimate of VO2 max: Vo2 max reference values - #27 by adssx

@Neo

Any sense for how accurate the VO2 max predictors are?

Potentially widely inaccurate but the trend over time is correct, i.e. if your estimated VO2 max is improving, it means your real VO2 max improving as well: Vo2 max reference values - #15 by adssx

[AnUser]

https://x.com/robertwiblin/status/1798366794786406863

[adssx]

And the reactions:

[AnUser]

Peter Attia’s health dashboard

I am sold on observational trials (especially prospective cohort studies), when RCT’s or MR doesn’t exist or can’t really be used.

[desertshores]

Except, when someone else uses observational studies. You are quick to point out that the studies were only observational.

[adssx]

Observational studies can emulate RCT. But they need to be done extremely well for that.