#41

no, not talking about my grandmother, she was dead by 60. I was talking about the oldest recorded human that was a French woman who lived to 122 years old. She clearly did not exercise nor do anything special just to live long. Now that is a one in billions and not very convincing, but the point is you don’t necessarily need to break your back (or balls if you like) exercising. No one disputes the fact that exercise/physical activity is good for health and ultimately good for longevity. What people are arguing about is the optimal amount of exercise for longevity, which may or may not necessarily coincide with optimal exercise for health in short term. By many accounts, there is such a thing as over-exercising. @desertshores just posted a table that clearly showed that lazy fucks like me walking daily at 3 miles per hour pace reap as good of benefits as suckers that sprint at 10 miles per hour endlessly lol.
Bottom line, I want the MOST and the BEST benefit while expending the least effort possible. Can’t and won’t torture myself to get a miserable 6-month life extension at the end. I must enjoy the pleasures of life while making sure I live a very long and a healthy life.

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#42

Yes but what’s ball breaking to you is an elating endorphin rush to someone else. You’re into hot little brunettes. Some men like to be gagged and cuffed and pissed on by a 300 lb dominatrix. To each his own.

I bet even if we found the exact inflection point beyond which exercise yields more wear and tear than adaptation, those who love the way they live will not give it up still even if they find themselves on the wrong side of that curve. And that’s fine. Most people end up doing too little instead of too much anyway.

The self experimenter on the video who reached a Vo2max of 61 in his mid 50s while training for his first marathon, did so with half of the amount of training he should have needed, according to conventional wisdom. I listened to the interview while half asleep last night so I haven’t checked his math but by his calculations, mitochondrial biogenesis will be maximized by running half an hour twice a week — so long as done very regularly— and there will be little to no additional gains over the course of a year by running any oftener or harder. Then some HIIT and SIT could further improve mitochondrial efficiency but it needed to be done in small intervals with plenty of rest days in between for recovery. Most people serious about exercise seemingly go overboard.

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#43

hahaaaaa you made my day, holy shit you definitely don’t mince words. I small correction, i’m into hot brunettes but they need not be little, some meat on the bones, or let just say some meat where it matters most is welcome. Haven’t stopped laughing yet lol… :joy::joy::joy::joy:

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#44

This article thinks exercise and Vo2max extend healthspan, but not longevity.

“Survival of the fittest: VO2max, a key predictor of longevity?”

“As yet, it is not possible to extend the genetically fixed lifespan with regular exercise
training, but to give the years more life.”

https://sci-hub.se/10.2741/4657

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#45

Here is still another lifespan calculator based on your present age.
The calculator is a little wonky, at least on my computer, I had to click on most buttons twice to get them to respond and move on to the next. question.

Based on my inputs, age 83, and answering the questions, I am expected to live to the age of 95.

Profits of insurance companies are based on actuarial accuracy, so this calculator might have some science behind it.

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#46

It doesn’t like not going to the doctor.

#47

BS, I have absolutely no doubt that you will live at the very least to 105. Most likely you’ll drop dead around 107. The calculator is dumb.

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#48

I think this is a different definition of longevity. Longevity as in maximum possible vs longevity as in years lived (which is related to years of health).

#49

So are you saying that most of your Vo2 max is lost in 3-4 weeks?
Would you care to back this statement up with some science ?
Eatting Popcorn GIFs - Find & Share on GIPHY

1 Like
#50

Never thought I’d even read let alone quote msn but here it is couple articles that might or might not have something interesting in it, I think it’s more of a nothing burger but nevertheless here it is:

btw, this caught my eye. The number of people living to 100 and older is projected to grow eightfold by 2050. Half of today’s 5-year-olds will live to be 100

3 ‘supercentenarians’ on living to 110 or older and their advice for a ‘healthy and purposeful life’ (msn.com)

We’ve met over 1,000 centenarians. Here are 3 surprising things we’ve learned about longevity from the world’s oldest people. (msn.com)

I researched longevity after my grandmother lived to 104. Here are 4 things that might help you become a centenarian. (msn.com)

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#51

I agree there is a delicate balance in my world between over-reaching and over-training syndrome. The latter is real and devastating, however most people are far from these sort of levels of training.

I think CDC’s recommendations of 150 minutes of moderate-intensity physical activity and 2 days of muscle strengthening activity will get most of the benefit of exercise for most of the people.

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#52

“Daily vigorous exercise”, got my one extra year over “walk a minimum 30 minutes 4 days per week” :rofl:
That’s it, I quit, seatbelt got me more years.

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#53

Sir you’ll have to butter your own popcorn because I have no intention of chasing loose ends on Pubmed for you. Suffice it to say the assertion isn’t something I pulled out of my own hat. The sources were mentioned in the video and I have heard Rhonda Patrick, who comes a close second to Peter Attia in the “more exercise and harder is better” section of punditry, interview the leading researchers in this field. I’ve heard it from the horse’s mouth that mitochondrial adaptations are very easily lost if / once the stimulus stops.

#54

Here I did a quick research for you

Studies of runners show VO2 max drops about 6% after 4 weeks…

All About Detraining!

Far cry from

I was talking about Vo2max adaptations — not physiological adaptations…

stop doing anything at all for 3-4 weeks and you lose most of it.

Please don’t make blanket statements, they are not helpful for people that on these forums trying to make changes to improve their health.

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#55

The statement was lifted from the video this thread was about. I’m not its source.

#56

While we can try looking at molecular biology of exercise physiology such as mitochondrial activity which only represents a snippet of overall exercise effects, there is nothing more relevant than a huge population studies looking at overall morbidity and mortality. The nitpicking video above did very little to change my mind on the powerful positive effects of exercise on healthspan and lifespan. This systematic review study looks at 54 peer reviewed publications. It seems that J curve drop off for exercise is much further to the right than we think, since these studies were supporting the overall benefits in Elite Athletes.

An overwhelming majority of studies included in this review reported favorable lifespan longevities for athletes compared to their age- and sex-matched controls from the general population… In particular, our review supports previous conclusions that aerobic and mixed-sport athletes have superior longevity outcomes relative to more anaerobic sport athletes.

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#57

I agree with high a lot of this. I also think most people in general excise too little.

At the same time, to understand where you are coming from do you by and large agree with the longevity literature that there seems to be two states for mammals:

A. growth/build/resources are abundant (generally good for near term health)

B. resources are scarce/go into protect/recycle mode (generally good for longevity and health at the very end time one’s life)

Different top scientists use different terms, but generally seems to agree on roughly those two states

Things like extra calories and all the nutrient sensing pathways are revved up in the first state above. We can build, good for wound healing, mTOR, IGF-1, GH, testosterone, etc are higher

Things like fasting, calories down/restricted, autophagy, mitophagy, general recycling of less optimal cells, and also stress tolerance, etc kick in when in the second state.

Spending a meaningful amount of time in the second state is optimal to avoid cancer, dementia and other age related disease and to maximize healthy longevity as we age. Through evolution humans and other mammals spent a lot of time in this second state. But people in the modern world rarely are in that state if they don’t intentionally take steps to enter it.

To have enough of the second state over the decades of our lives it seems that meaningful amount excise is fine and for other reasons good. But if we were to maximize amounts of exercise needed and be at the upper edge of the curves in the two recent papers you shared one would have to sacrifice how much one is the second state above.

Does this framework sketch jive with your interpretation of the science and medicine of aging and longevity?

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#58

I agree… for 99.8% of there population we are nowhere near the “over-exercise” zone. For this population I think increasing our Vo2Max to what is now the 75th to 90th percentile is likely significantly beneficial and could be done with exercising 4 to 8 hours per week I suspect.

As long as you are conscious about what types of exercise you are doing, not risking repetitive strain injuries, etc., I think working to increase Vo2Max will increase health and longevity significantly.

Everyone has to find his or her sweet-spot in terms of how exercise fits into their lives given the free time and priorities they have, but at least for myself I’m working to increase my fitness and muscle strength during this key period prior to when it becomes much more difficult, which seems to be around the 65 year or 70 year mark.

Part of this is about lifestyle also - not just longevity. Sure, my grandmother lived to 100 without any exercise, and while smoking (but she didn’t inhale) and drinking regularly. But she weighed 104 lbs, had virtually no muscle and didn’t do much other than walk around the neighborhood. I want to be hiking the Tour du Mont Blanc when I’m in my 90s!

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#59

Exercise is literally your second state B (actually even better because of selective m-tor inhibition, taurine, klotho, BNP production and other benefits). This is how humans lived for most of the 100,000 years. We hunt, scavenge, farm, raise children, build shelter, etc ALL forms of exercise and the we consume your state A.

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#60

You could probably do it in 5 hours/week in a well designed program. 2 sessions of 1 hour at the gym light circuit training which if done can count as zone 2 cardio training. Full 2 hours of strict zone 2 cardio - for some people that’s walking, others light jog, cycling, pickle ball etc. 2 sessions of HIIT 4x4 each - hill running, cycling, trainer, air bike. 90% Pure Zone 2 10% Pure Zone 5 - Perfect polarized training for maximal aerobic and strength gains.

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