Wise Athletes podcast episode— Part 1 & 2 on Near Infrared Light

[EenDwaze]

Great info. Much appreciated

[Joseph_Lavelle]

Here’s part 2 with Glen Jeffery PhD on preserving eye health with red/NIR light, and the general implications on the red / NIR / IR part of the spectrum on human health. My incandescent lamp is on the way…and am I’m making sure to get outside as much as I can …even if only for a few minutes at a time. I still use my red / NIR lamp, but only in the AM now.

#150 | NIR & Deep Red Light to Preserve Eye Health | Glen Jeffrey PhD ·...

[blsm]

I’m excited to listen to this one! Especially since I’m genetically at high risk for macular degeneration.
I really enjoyed the first one and it connected a lot of dots for me on things I’d noticed over the years regarding how I felt in natural light v different types of artificial light but didn’t seem to make sense from the limited UV/vitamin D angle. I do have a red light panel that I’ve not been consistent with using so I’m going to try to use it daily and continue forest bathing and exercising outdoors as much as possible even though it’s winter right now where I live. I did find 4 incandescent bulbs on the shelf at my local tractor supply so I bought them all. They have frosted glass so I’m not sure if that’s an issue? I figured if infrared could penetrate clothing it might pass through the frosted glass but I can’t find any good information on this? If anyone has knowledge on this I’d be grateful to be enlightened (pun intended!).

[Pat25]

Fantastic Podcast again - couldn’t wait to listen to it, so I did so instantly while soaking up some NIR light from my heat lamp . Great information, but also very concerning to hear that many of us living in colder, darker climates / spending most time indoors, inevitably experienced accelerated (mitochondrial) aging. (Some incandescent bulbs are also unlikely to have offset that, given their low intensity compared to natural light. That’s besides the fact that incandescent bulbs at least should avoid the ‘blue light’ imbalance and potentially related accelerated retinal aging).

[Joseph_Lavelle]

@blsm

? I figured if infrared could penetrate clothing it might pass through the frosted glass

That would be my guess as well. It’s the invisible wavelengths you want anyway.

[Joseph_Lavelle]

@Pat25

Fantastic Podcast again

Thanks! This set of conversations have changed my thinking. I no longer see red/NIR light as a hack. It’s a deficiency that I need to fix at the source…sunlight.

That said, I have purchased an NIRA incandescent bulb and DC powered lamp (for no-flicker) that will stay on next to me when I work during the day.

[Davin8r]

I ordered a couple of Zimmerman’s full-sprectrum LED bulbs for my home office (pricey at $27 apiece, but at least they’ll last years), so I’ll let the group know what I think

[Pat25]

@Joseph_Lavelle

Thanks! This set of conversations have changed my thinking. I no longer see red/NIR light as a hack. It’s a deficiency that I need to fix at the source…sunlight.

I definitely agree with you. It’s actually a shame that for years (also on ‘longevity forums’, including in a thread here) light/sun exposure has been demonised so much. Quite commonly it is recommended to ‘just supplement vitamin D’, and to avoid the sun. Your Podcasts highlight we are damaging our health (and longevity) without sufficient outdoor NIR exposure. Sure, you can use a hat, sit in the shadow or try to avoid peak UV exposure, but the suggestion to avoid sun exposure altogether is problematic.

[Joseph_Lavelle]

@Pat25 I agree that we cannot hope to remake nature with only the good parts while leaving out the “unnecessary” parts. I like the analogy of highly processed food: no matter what they put back in … it still isn’t as healthy as real food. I’m just going to get outside a lot. I’ll wear a hat. My incandescent lamp (and red/NIR lamp) will help fill in some gaps.

[Radiata]

I find it odd that on the NIRA website they don’t list any of the typical light bulb specifications such as wattage, lumens, color temp etc. They have a bit on equivalent wattage in the FAQ, but not much else.

Here’s a how-to that I found for modifying bulbs and soldering in IR LEDs. The goal for this Instructable was apparently to make a bulb that’s only IR, so it wouldn’t have any visible light. I suppose you could only replace some of the LEDs with a combination of IR or NIR LEDs to get a similar effect to the NIRA bulb, but it’s tough to say what spectrum you’d end up with without measuring it with a spectrometer.

Convert Cheap LED Bulb to IR Bulb

[Joseph_Lavelle]

Send me your questions. I’ll see if I can get Scott Zimmerman to answer them.

[Pat25]

@Joseph_Lavelle This video that someone posted really confused me.

Dosage, Time & Time of Day for Red Light Therapy | Dr Glen Jeffery Interview Clips

1 minute of (deep) red light every 5 days should be enough Dr. Green Jeffery says here to increase ATP production in mitochondria, albeit for convenience he advises 3 minutes every day. At the end he then says ‘too much and the whole things falls apart’.
What are your thoughts on this, if I might ask? I do the red/nir light panel thing 10 mins per day (albeit admittedly intermittently). I also use a heat lamp + red/nir light lamp half of the day when it is dark outdoors to complement the Leds I use - to hopefully ‘replicate’ the solar electromagnetic spectrum a bit better. Now I wonder if it’s actually too much.

There are multiple studies that show a biphasic dose response to red/NIR, but this research is mostly done with lasers, wherein the exposure in mw/cm2 is definitely much higher than Dr. Jeffery mentions in this video.

[Joseph_Lavelle]

@Pat25 Glen Jeffery was probably talking about deep red (670nm) light into the eyes. I’d be cautious about doing too much. Scott Zimmerman thought we should be very cautious about NIR (invisible) light into our eyes (no blink reflex). I shine my lamp onto my face about 1x/week for 5 minutes (deep red and NIR).

On the other hand, I use my red/NIR panel for about 20 min per body part every day. If I’m doing too much I can’t tell. Feet, shoulders, knees.

[Radiata]

That would be excellent. Here are basic specs I’m wondering about for each bulb:

A19 bulb (40-60 W equivalent)

• Brightness (lumens)
• Wattage (actual)
• Color temperature (K)

BR30 (65 W equivalent)

• Brightness (lumens)
• Wattage (actual)
• Color temperature (K)

BR40 (65 W equivalent)

• Brightness (lumens)
• Wattage (actual)
• Color temperature (K)

[Joseph_Lavelle]

Effects of near-infrared radiation in ambient lighting on cognitive performance, emotion, and heart rate variability

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0272494424002573

Highlights

• • Ambient NIR exposure positively influences parasympathetic activity via HRV.
• • NIR in ambient lighting may enhance pleasure, suggesting protective effects on mood.
• • NIR wavelengths influence resting HRV and HRV responses to cognitive demand.
• • Exclusion of NIR from lighting may have health implications needing further study.
• • Balancing energy efficiency with NIR inclusion could optimize health and productivity.

[Joseph_Lavelle]

@Radiata

Scott’s response which I’d guess applies to all bulbs…

Our first gen AC lamps put out 450 lumens (1.5 optical watts visible) and 4.5 optical watts near infrared/infrared.

2nd gen does 700 lumens (2.5 optical watts visible) and 7.5 optical watts near infrared/infrared.

Lamp uses DC PCBs (Joe’s add; for no flicker) and has daylight and campfire modes: Again 450 lumens visible and 4.5 optical watts NIR/IR in daylight and 3 optical watts NIR/IR in night mode with just an orange glow.

Additional comment from Scott:

Please make it clear the ratio of NIR to visible is our best guess based on shade measurements and what I believe is the increased needs of children and black community. My hope is that as we get more research we will be able to maximize health benefits based on our individual needs.

[Beth]

Sorry if this has been answered, but…

We have an LED house and I can fully control the color. They are not IR bulbs, but do you think there could be any benefit if they are turned red?

[Joseph_Lavelle]

This image copied from earlier in this thread shows that red shifted LEDs have less blue, which should be helpful. But it also show that they never produce any NIR light, so the benefit is limited. That’s my interpretation.

[PBJ]

Just a heads up for anyone interested. Mitoredlight has the MitoPRO 300X on sale for $75 off with code SAVE75.
PlatinumLED has $200 off on their MitoPRO line of devices. Discount is in cart. The products are high powered, but be aware that the company has had a lot of customer service complaints by online accounts. These two companies have lawsuits against each other for things such as fake bad reviews. Unfortunately, the information superhighway has become a tool for misinformation these days. So, who knows?

I have no affiliation with these companies, and I am currently undecided and still researching.

[Pat25]

The question is whether ‘high powered’ is really needed. ‘High powered’ is the marketing term for many panels, but studies also indicate potential harmful effects on skin of excessive NIR exposure, resulting in thermal stress and increasing MMP expression, among others.
Personally I tried to make some calculations based on the amount of NIR you’d get if you spend some time outdoors on a sunny day in a region not too far from the equator, and try to stay below that. But obviously that is just a personal interpretation and approach, as there is so much we don’t know yet.

In Joseph’s interview Dr. Jeffery also mentioned that a simple NIR lamp worked just fine. That said: I do have a panel, but didn’t buy one with a very high power output for this reason. And I use it with moderation compared to what I’ve seen some other users mention.