#41

Yeh, the AG1 is odd. A product of questionable value. But he does admit to being an investor.

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#42

Yeah, he says he takes conflicts seriously and that he discloses everything on his website, but itā€™s the extent we didnā€™t know.

I also donā€™t like when he (I think) and definitely others, like Huberman and Ferris, talk about taking AG1 when itā€™s outside of their promo segments (if something is obviously an ad, I am cool with that).

If I recall, it was a during a conversation with Andy Galpin and Huberman that they were talking about supplements and then giggled and, after the fact, added, oh yeah, and donā€™t forget we always take AG1 (or something like that)ā€¦ they were obviously FOS.

I also donā€™t like how they all talk about eating Attia jerky.

When my friend first called them The Podcast Bros, I defended them, but have since had to backpedal on that.

And on that note, Iā€™m extra grateful for this forum where there are so many smart people I can run things by whom I can trust, even if not everyone agrees.

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#43

My history with Peter Attia started in 2012 when I found his website: The Eating Academy. It was a primer about the evils of sugar and carbohydrates and the benefits of a ketogenic diet. Since then, Iā€™ve listened to hundreds of his podcasts.

I know that he is a shameless promoter. Always claiming things like the importance of exercise and a proper diet over pharmaceuticals, poor sleep leads to bad health, and eat lots of protein to maintain muscle mass as you age. And, always the science to back it up.

Yes, I have heard him mention the Oura ring, Maui Nui Venison, and Athletic Greens. But, my recollection is that he always states that he is an investor and/or an advisor for these products. And, in my opinion, these products ARE beneficial to consumers.

Iā€™m a huge fan!

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#44

Itā€™ll be an interesting time for him. He is also weathering having posted pictures of himself with Kevin Spacey, which seems like a high risk thing to do for someone who has a large audience.
Oneā€™s perspective of normal adjusts based on income and power.
Regardless, Attia is certainly brilliant - but I donā€™t understand not being able to complete a residency program as that makes one not able to be licensed in a huge number (and growing) of states as a physician.
Hopefully he mitigates any harm done with this revelation. Heā€™s been a good source of information in this space in some respects, however, I fundamentally disagree with assertions made around exercise trumping nutrition ā€¦ just plainly hasnā€™t played out. There is a real bias that results in focus on data convenient to oneā€™s preconceived notions, rather than genuinely trying to sort out what the best representation of the facts are (similar to what we see with Greger)

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#45

I donā€™t recall him specifically saying (or implying) that exercise trumps nutrition. It seems he is always saying that the path to the ā€œCentenarian Olympicsā€ (and metabolic health) includes exercise, nutrition and sleep.

IMHO, the only better source may be RapAdmin!
Who would you say is better source than Attia?

#46

@hitch There arenā€™t many people who could claim to have listened to more Attia podcasts than me but you may be one of the few. Attia is a conundrum: he is overly confident in his conclusions but he has persuaded me to try unconventional things that have improved my life.

I am glad to have listened to him and I have forgiven his over confidence but I wonā€™t accept his self enrichment at my expense. Iā€™m finished with Attia. Iā€™ve likewise moved on from Huberman, Rhonda Patrick, Ferris, and many others. ā€¦call it graduation. Iā€™ve moved on. I donā€™t want to be spoon fed any longer. There are plenty of trustworthy people to learn from.

In my podcast episode with Bill Gifford, who co-wrote Outlive with Attia, I shared my frustrations about Attiaā€™s over confidence:

  • he was the Keto king. I tried it with mixed results, only to discover that Attia no longer did keto
  • he moved onto fasting to get his ketosis fix. I started doing fasting. Then Attia quit fasting
  • he was the metformin for longevity king. I tried it but found it made hard exercise harder so I quit. Then Attia changed his mind about metformin.
  • he was an advocate for statins. I finally agreed to use a statin. Then I discovered he no longer took a statin.

Bill Gifford said, ā€œthe great thing about Attia is how he is willing to change his mind when the data supports it.ā€ That is true. But Attia sure needs to change his mind a lot about his previously confident conclusions that I relied on.

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#47

Iā€™ll go with @Joseph_Lavelle on this.

A better source is looking at the literature with this being nuanced by a comprehensive medical education and years of clinical experience. The researchers are who we should look toward, not individuals who have big audiences and enjoy the sensational story.

Looking at longevity should involve people who research those who live a long time - not those who have their own theories without solid evidence. However, we are in a speculative area, by the nature of being on this board.

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#48

I believe that most of the guests that Attia interviews are researchers that qualify as true experts in their field.

As Attia says: ā€œStrong convictions, loosely heldā€
I also did a Keto diet, tried fasting and took metformin and still take rapamycin. Those were not based on bad science and I think we are all allowed to use new science to form new beliefs.

I believe he has a genetic mutation that gives him very high cholesterol and he switched to an expensive PCSK9 inhibitor that only requires a monthly injection and has fewer side effects. He does prescribe statins to some of his patients.

Are you saying that Attia has theories that are not backed by solid evidence? For example?

I wish I had a comprehensive medical education and years of clinical experience. But, since I donā€™t, Iā€™ll continue to listen to Attia and read rapamycin.news. And if I read/hear about some new breakthrough, Iā€™ll research it as the best that I can to try to determine if it would work for me (e.g. Klotho?).

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#49

@hitch. You have some pretty strong convictions as wellā€¦.maybe not so loosely held.

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#50

As Iā€™ve said before, I suspect heā€™ll also eventually have to walk back or modify his current recommendation for a high-protein diet, if research continues to pile up showing high-protein (and/or high methionine and/or high BCAA) diets increase rate of aging, and cutting these extends lifespan/healthspan.

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#51

There is some implicit reasoning here that it is superior to have no strong convictions. Like youā€™re thinking you are doing him a favor from pointing it out, if it was true. Someone who doesnā€™t have any strong convictions I would not place in the ā€˜superiorā€™ or ā€˜inferiorā€™ category, theyā€™re just different.

#52

I sadly donā€™t have time to go through everything and my concerns about the content being put in front of healthcare consumers. He by far is not doing nearly the level of disinformation of many, and again, I like a lot of what he does.

I see a real concern having someone provide general medical care who has no training as a generalist. You donā€™t know so much when you self train. Itā€™s the stuff you donā€™t know that you donā€™t know. As someone who trained rural GPs and Emergency Physicians for a decade I see the risk.

In regard to selected guests, some are researchers, but actually looking at longevityā€¦ very few who actually work in this space. The disrespect and misunderstanding of epidemiology is a knowledge deficit.

Anyway, Iā€™m not going to go back and forth on this.

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#53

@Davin8r Check kit this podcast from The Proof about protein intake for older people. The conclusion of the subject study is that more protein is better as long as it is plant protein. Itā€™s worth a listen.

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#54

I will continue to use Dr Attia as a source of learning. He presents useful information from experts in the field. His biases are easy to recognize. His trials with interventions have generally followed the longevity field and when those are disproven he admits it and moves on, which is more than can be said of many. Do I completely trust everything he says? No, but then thatā€™s true of everyone. I think he genuinely wants to be as healthy and fit as possible and will pursue evidence to succeed.
Although he is practicing general medicine, he has the personality of a surgeon- ā€œseldom wrong, never in doubtā€.

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#55

Thanks Joseph, I just watched the video, and I think he did a great job breaking down the study and refuting Layneā€™s faulty analysis.

The point Iā€™d make is that the benefits accrue when going from meat protein ā†’ dairy protein ā†’ plant protein in part for the reasons discussed in the video, but what he didnā€™t mention is that plant proteins are generally much lower in methionine and BCAAs, which may in large part account for their role in healthy aging. An even more optimized/dialed-in anti-aging approach might be keeping methionine/BCAAs under a certain threshold (from whatever protein sources, although plants/legumes generally better due to accompanying fiber/phytonutrients/etc) along with resistance training (and sufficient energy intake) to increase or at least maintain muscle strength over time.

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#56

@Davin8r Yes, that makes sense. As I recall the study tried to eliminate the effect of other constituents in plants to see just the impact of the protein by source. I think it is significant even though it doesnā€™t match my current diet. I eat alot of fish and nonfat Greek yogurt on top of a lot of plants. The reason for the animal protein is to get a high protein to calorie ratio to keep the overall calories down. Plant proteins almost always come with lots of carbs unless using powders.

Something to ponder while I keep my protein intake high.

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#57

You might be interested in this study looking at the impact of different amino acids on the (mouse) gut microbiome.

The study also compared different protein diets to examine the effects of individual amino acids on the gut microbiomeā€™s composition and activity. Notably, the mice consuming aromatic amino-acid-rich proteins experienced the greatest weight and fat mass loss compared to those on standard protein and branched-chain amino-acid-rich protein diets.

#58

@blsm An actual explanation of why I am not adding rice protein to my pea proteinā€¦ I just had a feeling it was a good ideaā€¦

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#59

Thanks Beth! Iā€™m always trying to fine tune my approach. I do try to focus my higher protein intake/use of protein powders to post weight training simply for helping me overcome menopausal anabolic resistance. It may or may not be end up being the right choice long term. Iā€™m honestly kind of freaked out by the frailty I see in my elderly patients so I think thatā€™s probably pushed me in the direction of prioritizing building and maintaining lean mass. I wish I knew who to trust on this topic. Iā€™m with you on @Joseph_Lavelle !

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#60

Iā€™m ok with carbs from beans and fats from nuts, as long as energy balance is appropriate for my goals.

I really want someone to do this study, ideally using subjects as their own controls (i.e. crossover study):

Four conditions, each are isocaloric (one with higher protein, one with moderate protein plus healthy carbs such as intact whole grains, beans, resistant starch, etc). Two out of the four conditions involve identical resistance training protocols:

  1. high protein, resistance train
  2. mod protein, resistance train
  3. high protein, no resistance train
  4. mod protein, no resistance train

Main hypothesis would be that there is a very large, real-world significant increase in muscle protein synthesis/mass/strength in both resistance training groups, with a much smaller significant difference between the mod-protein vs high-protein groups.

If the hypotheses were supported, it would support the assertion that resistance training itself is MUCH more important than high vs moderate protein intake, and that itā€™s perfectly possible to build and maintain muscle mass/strength without being on a high-protein (and possibly age-accelerating?) diet, as long as there are enough ā€œhealthyā€ calories coming in.

Has anyone come across anything like this?

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