I just ordered 2 months ( 28 tablets per strip) of estradiol valerate 2mg for testing. However, i may not take it daily, probably interchange it with DHEA every one or two days.

Estrogen exerts negative feedback at the hypothalamic-pituitary level, leading to decreased endogenous testosterone production from the gonads, along with feminizing effects by action at estrogen receptors

https://academic.oup.com/jes/article/5/9/bvab068/6231851

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Is your goal just to raise estrogen levels? It seems like taking estradiol—which has an estrogen binding affinity of 100%—would be much more potent and potentially riskier compared to estriol, which has only a 10% affinity.

There is some discussion about the relative safety of estriol if you haven’t already seen it: The latest Interventions Testing Program (ITP) study Results (May, 2024) - #59 by LVareilles (though the ITP study used the 16-hydroxy version of estriol and not pure estriol as mentioned here: Next estrogen that extended male mice lifespan 16 alpha-hydroxyestradiol - does anyone knows anything about this? - #8 by Neo).

I personally am considering trying out estriol cream now which does apparently raise blood levels of estrogen from what I have read on the subject.

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i read both threads but found all of them difficult to purchase online, therefore i added estradiol into my order list of sirolimus. May lower the dosage frequency to avoid negative impact.

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I suspect that all the regular Indian suppliers can get you Estriol… (83 rupees to the US$), so very cheap.

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i didn’t find this one, maybe my next order, btw, thanks :pray: for pointout it’s available.

David Sinclair allegedly uses finasteride and this might be one reason he looks young.

Finasteride seems to be the one, but can’t ablating testosterone do it in?

I think the source might be related to x.com

I got a blood test of testosterone of 193 just two days ago. I wonder what happened, the only changes were (1) taking statins, (2) taking estriol.

from a email newsletter:

#1: Microdosing finasteride to age more gracefully (?)

David Sinclair looks very young for his age. The guy is 54 but looks like 40. Many people (and even he himself) “claim” that this is due to his intake of resveratrol and NAD-concoctions. Bullshit. The guy has been taken finasteride for decades, which is probably the primary reason behind him aging so gracefully.

A friend of mine who noticed incipient alopecia with 25, has been on finasteride (0.25mg) for about 15 years. He is now 42 but looks about a decade younger than he is.

Ashton Kutsher also aged incredibly well in his 30s – presumably/partly due to him taking dutasteride for hair loss. After coming off, he seems to have aged quite a bit.

Similarly, people with long-standing hypogonadism often look much younger than they are. Conversely, people on TRT seem to age incredibly fast – and fat redistribution may not be the whole story.

DHT not only drives hair scalp hair loss, but it leads to accelerated skin aging due to a number of mechanisms which ultimately come down widespread changes in gene expression. These effects include maturation of hair follicles, pore size and sebum production, and elastin breakdown.

Next to body composition, the skin and its appendages (e.g., hair) are the primary things we can see of another person and therefore are our predominant guide to judge someone’s age.

As a simplification, estrogens (particularly estradiol) keep the skin firm, elastic, and youthful, whereas androgens (particularly dihydrotestosterone) do the opposite.

Back in November/December, I was on TRT. During this time, I noticed small hairs growing in my biceps area. I am quite a non-hairy person and the excess virilization worried me. I jumped on a microdose of finasteride (0.05mg per day – so 1/20th of the recommended dose for hair loss) and the hair growth caused by TRT mostly reversed over a 3-4 month period. This was fascinating to see. I tested my blood levels of DHT and at this dose, they were at around 400 (range: 300-800).

In terms of side effects, for the first two weeks my erections were weak and my nipples puffy. This worried me but I am glad I stuck with it. Thereafter, no (noticeable) side effects for me. Libido and erections are as good as ever.

Initially, I also felt and behaved subtly “less manly” but I am not sure how much of that was in my head. Anyway, changing neurosteroids and DHT levels surely has at the very least a subtle effect on my neurocognitive and emotional functioning but hard to say how large that effect is. So, I think that it was not exclusively in my head.

All the fear-mongering around post-finasteride syndrome did indeed scare me. However, I figured that in case of worrying side effects I could just taper off (cold-turkey withdrawal is associated with PFS). Furthermore, a dosage of 0.05mg per day is unlikely to cause permanent issues (I may be wrong in this regard).

Given the effects of DHT on the visual aspects of aging, from now on, I plan on using a microdose of finasteride to age more gracefully.

The small reduction in dopamine levels due to AR being highly expressed in the ventral tegmental area can be managed with ultra-low doses of rasagiline.

This is an experiment I am currently running and just as with other experiments, the outcome is uncertain. As of now, I have been on a microdose of finasteride for 4 months and things look good. However, it could very well be that I´ll stop using the finasteride at some point.

The thing I am mostly scared about is a potential flare-up of pubertal gynecomastia – which I am monitoring closely (with some raloxifene on hand). On a genetic level, estrogen and androgen receptors have somewhat opposing effects in some tissues. The reduction in DHT tilts the balance between androgens and estrogens towards estrogen signaling, thus causing gynecomastia in some people.

Just as with everything else in life, there are tradeoffs. In this case, I am reducing some of my “manliness” (though probably subtly) in favor of better skin aging, not developing excessive amounts of body hair, preventing hair loss (which I currently have no signs of), and a large reduction in my risk for prostate cancer (my dad had a total prostatectomy last year).

I will write an article about my thoughts on 5-alpha reductase inhibitors soon.

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Would you mind sharing how long have you been taking estriol? The brand and dosage?

Once again, the existence of PFS is not backed by any strong science.

The US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) had advised that the PFS petition “does not provide reasonable evidence” of a link to suicide, but in August 2022 added suicidal ideation (SI) and behaviour to the adverse reactions listed for finasteride. According to the FDA statement, the PFS petition “does not provide reasonable evidence” of a causal link between finasteride and persistent SD, depression, or suicide. However, on the basis of reports from patients using the 1-mg dose for AGA, the FDA is “requiring the addition of SI and behaviour” to the listed AEs.

US Food and Drug Administration Warning Regarding Finasteride and Suicidal Ideation: What Should Urologists Know? - ScienceDirect

Nor does finasteride significantly impact the kind of DHT that is commonly found in the human brain.

According to Harris et al. ([28](javascript:;)), finasteride is a potent inhibitor of human 5α-reductase type 2 (with an IC50 value of approximately 5 nmol/L) and a poor inhibitor of the type 1 isoform (with an IC50 value of approximately 500 nmol/L). Therefore, our dose-response analyses with finasteride and MK386 as inhibitors and 0.1 μmol/L androstenedione as substrate suggest the predominant, if not exclusive, activity of the 5α-reductase type 1 isozyme in the mature human brain.

Characterization of the 5α-Reductase-3α-Hydroxysteroid Dehydrogenase Complex in the Human Brain1 | The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism | Oxford Academic (oup.com)

I can’t say anything about the effects of finasteride on feeling “manly” because I don’t feel any different that before finasteride. I can still get angry, my lifts are ever-increasing and even the quality of my erections remained unchanged.

With that being said, there’s no direct evidence showing that either finasteride or dutasteride are longevity drugs. There is some animal research and a bunch of observational trials showing a correlation between balding and heart disease, indicating that (high levels of) DHT may be a risk factor.

Finasteride delays atherosclerosis progression in mice and is associated with a reduction in plasma cholesterol in men - Journal of Lipid Research (jlr.org)

The experiments done with 17-alpha estradiol, another 5ari, do show a significant lifespan extension in uncastrated male mile but 5ar inhibition is only one possible explanation for their longevity.

Male lifespan extension with 17‐α estradiol is linked to a sex‐specific metabolomic response modulated by gonadal hormones in mice - Garratt - 2018 - Aging Cell - Wiley Online Library

In humans, finasteride use significantly reduced prostate cancer incidence over a 7 year period with no change in acm and a potential slight increase in high-grade prostate cancer incidence that may or may not be related to better detection.

In the updated analysis, men taking finasteride had a 30 percent decrease in the relative risk of developing prostate cancer compared with men who took a placebo: 10.5 percent of men in the finasteride group were diagnosed with prostate cancer versus 14.9 percent of men in the placebo group. This reduction in risk was explained solely by the prevention of low-grade cancers—those with a Gleason score of 6 or less—which present little health risk but, nonetheless, are often treated with radical surgery or radiation. The risk of such cancers was 43 percent lower in the finasteride group than the placebo group.
The men who took finasteride were more likely to be diagnosed with high-grade cancer compared with the men who took a placebo: 3.5 percent of all men in the finasteride group versus 3.0 percent of all men in the placebo group, a relative increase of about 17 percent.
The survival rates at 15 years were very similar between the two groups: 78.0 percent in the finasteride group versus 78.2 percent in the placebo group. When the researchers looked specifically at men who had been diagnosed with prostate cancer, the survival rates for individuals diagnosed with prostate cancer were also very similar between the two groups.

Subsequent analyses of the PCPT data suggested that the observed increase in high-grade prostate cancers in men taking finasteride was due, at least in part, to improved detection. For example, finasteride shrinks the volume of the prostate, potentially making high-grade cancers easier to detect on biopsy. However, concerns that finasteride might cause a true increase in the risk of high-grade prostate cancer—and death—have remained, so the PCPT investigators analyzed long-term follow-up data for trial participants to look for mortality differences between finasteride-treated men and placebo-treated men.

Finasteride for Prostate Cancer Prevention - NCI

Overall, finasteride is probably good for your prostate health and potentially heart health but I don’t attribute Dr. Sinclair’s supposed “youngness” to it. If he were bald he would look older of course.

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I’m on both finasteride (1mg daily)and DUTASTERIDE (0.5 mg bi weekly) and I believe it’s the best decision i made for my skin hair prostate brain and heart health I’m 29 and people mistaken me for 24/25 always.

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Which email newsletter - source please?

Michael Lustgarten believes that youthful hormone levels might be keeping youthful appearance in check. Since finasteride affects DHT this might be the case.
Low DHT levels seems youthful?

image

Women also have low DHT levels, and finasteride prevents prostate cancer and DHT-related hair loss. It seems good.

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This came to mind:

A circle of eunuch men watching over a computer, channeling something, they are digital beings, no reproduction, only memetic reproduction.

DHT is higher in older men? Isn’t DHT like the active form of T?

is DHT important for muscle growth?

It seems to be stable from 20 yrs old and forward, this was in Czech men.

Both forms are active forms. Only DHT is disabled in the muscles by 3α-hydroxysteroid.

5α-Reductase inhibition does not adversely affect muscle mass | Nature Reviews Urology

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It’s interesting how DHT stays roughly constant even when testosterone levels fall with age. Doesn’t this suggest that 5ar activity increaes as one ages?

Free DHT levels peak and decline at the same time as free testosterone:

image
image

The Free DHT / Free testosterone levels are stable it seems with age.

image

Does that still mean there’s a difference in 5ar activity?
10.1016@j.jsbmb.2009.05.008.pdf (290.5 KB)

Does the free DHT/Testosterone graph imply higher 5ar activity in young age (low testosterone but higher DHT)?

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I once got a finasteride Rx for gender dysphoria, I should try that again (idk if new people are less liberal than old people on this)

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What about dutasteride?

@AlexKChen , If I may ask, I wonder what was the nature of such pure misery?