Agreed. He looks good most of the time, but there’s a couple of times when he’s like putting on the sunscreen, or just before pulling up the umbrella he looks about as bad as he does in that promo ad.

Certainly. He has a great film crew, making sure he looks the best.

I’ve been embracing more of a tan just to get my vitamin D up. It does make you look sickly when your skin is completely pale.

The race is on. Let’s just see who lives the longest… with the most zest. Hahaha.

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I think my main issue with his ‘scientific’ approach is precisely the overestimation of how ‘scientific’ it is. By trying to do everything he’s effectively confounding everything at the same time. No evidence that there’s a synergistic effect of everything he’s doing at the same time.

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You are right, and I guess what he’s really doing is monitoring and testing for possible bad outcomes, since with so many variables and n=1 its really hard (impossible?) to optimize.

The issue is that when it comes down to n=1 (which we all are), is it even possible in one lifetime to do a truly scientific approach?

If you had Bryan Johnson’s money with similar goals, what would you do differently?

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I agree in principle. I think people need to identify a mechanism before trying multiple interventions. I personally have a mechanistic hypothesis and work around that.

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Zest is the key!! not too zesty all the time but without some zest, why bother :slight_smile:

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Although he is not actually “proving” anything specific, which is for the most part not already known (claims to base all his activities on RCT studies), his N=! “trial” is still interesting.

As RapAdmin notes; as individuals we only have 1 lifetime to experiment with.

My program is way beyond the 1 thing I started with 5 years ago. I’m not trying to prove anything either, and have added probably 10 more “things” as I only have one life to live and time is running out. That fact is a bit of a motivator LoL!

One of the reasons we should all have an hourglass with the sands of our lives slowly draining away to motivate us. The circular clock lies to us, time may be limitless but our life time is not. Before a certain age, we are ageless, unfettered by the idea of age, let alone old age, then we get slapped in the face with some “birthday” that lets us know we’ve passed our “youth” threshold. And it’s time to do something about this inevitable thing that is happening. Then out comes the kitchen sink!

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i don’t think it is, and that’s why i think a lot about the philosophy of what it means to apply scientific results to a n of one. it’s a weird grey area where we rely on ‘science’ to make decisions about our lives, but that process itself is not scientific. my main concern with influencers (whether they self-label as that or not) like BJ is just being completely honest with oneself about what you’re doing. BJ is doing a lot of advertising on behalf of science, but I think it’s a tale as old as time where individuals advertise they have found the fountain of youth and have convincing arguments for why they are right this time.

Except this time we can use the backing of ‘science’ which is supposedly the most reliable approach to converging on the correct solution. I mean I wouldn’t be here either if I didn’t at least partly believe in this either.

Much more can be said on the topic, but the way I frame to my friends is that: I have followed people like Peter Attia, Huberman, BJ, etc. from day one (same alma maters too), and I always suspected their philosophy or approach would converge, i.e. ‘disclaimer: this is just a discussion on data/knowledge and not a prescription for what to do or advice on what’s best for your health.’ Everyone converges on that because of the backfire that would ensue if what they ‘sell’ turns out to be wrong decades down the line.

Yet the conundrum is that their reputations, whether they openly admit it or want to believe it themselves, is in large part due to the practices they follow as n=1. People are mimetic creatures, they copy what others do, and if someone appears to have authority on a subject, people will follow their practices. So they can deny that they’re selling anything and they are just spreading information, but underneath that I don’t believe it to be the base reality of what’s happening.

I always knew Attia would change his stance from originally being very dogmatic about nutrition, to the complete opposite, where now he says “i hate talking about nutrition, we don’t know xyz, we can’t do the actual experiment, etc…” It’s actually surprising to me that it took this long for him to come to that self-realization.

To come full circle on this, my bias is to be suspect when people use words like ‘science’ (or any buzzword) to support their claims. It’s similar to what Thiel says when he repeats often that it’s a tell when certain fields have to label themselves as ‘sciences’, such as social science or political science, whereas physics is just physics, math is just math. I tell my friends that this can actually be expanded to anything. When influencers say ‘this is not advice, just data’, it often means the opposite. The reason? If what they said was blatantly obvious and true, they wouldn’t have to say it. An honest person never has to say ‘I am an honest person.’ Modus operandus is to be suspicious of people who do make that claim. Or, the good ol’ meme, ‘this is not financial advice,’ means that the claimer precisely knows what he is saying is financial advice, and therefore must temper it by making the opposite claim.

This is quite the digression so apologies if it’s off point, but overall I still pay attention to what these influencers say and do. I don’t throw everything out with the bathwater. The challenge is to know what to throw out. For example, BJ in a recent X post says “Friends - don’t do cheat days, cheat weekends, or cheat nights. They’re bad for you. You know this…they’re never ever, ever worth it. The only thing they reliably deliver is regret. Instead, build stable, reliable systems of good habits that create enduring contentment.”

He’s verging into guru territory now. For argument sake, what if what he says turns out to be wrong? Should his reputation take a hit? I actually think so contrary to what others might argue, because he is precisely giving advice and indirectly monetizing off of people’s attention based on his supposed authority status on the subject.

I wouldn’t do anything differently from how I am doing. Like everyone is saying, we only have one life and so just have to weight our own internal probabilities of success of our methods, however so we come to those probabilities. But I would be crystal clear with myself what and why I’m doing what I’m doing. And it comes down to what (one thing I agree with) Peter Attia recently has been converging on, which is having the Pascal’s Wager mentality.

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You make precisely the point that I think about when seeing influencers. ‘Not have anything to prove.’ BJ definitely ‘has something to prove’. I think reminding myself that not having anything to prove has helped tempered any instinctual need I (and all humans) have to exert influence on this world. it’s fine to want to exert influence I’m sure, but dilemmas arise when money and other’s wellbeing are at stake.

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I like that!! thanks for bringing that to the convo.

And I did find his “no cheat days” thing cringe worthy. It’s not like we are all going to live forever based on what we can do today. Or that we can even extend lifespan along with health span.

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If we have to suffer pain and deprivation to achieve a long life it isn’t worth it.
“Life is a banquet and some fools are starving”

Yes, I do have cheat days and will continue to do so. I first came across this reasoning many years ago from an article by a health guru who was meticulous about his diet 5 days a week and allowed himself to indulge a little on the weekends.

I am not an advocate of the “Spartan life”.
I am 83 and in much better shape than most of my peers.
If the gurus want to live a strict lifestyle to gain an extra year or two of lifespan, they are free to do so, but I am not going down that path.

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yes the sad part about becoming influencer or influential is that, just like in top-level sports, you have to keep pushing boundaries to the extreme (in sports = PEDs and cheating, in influencing = opinions and claims) to garner attention. There is no attention to be made from saying ‘yea i do some cheat days, it’s fine.’ but say ‘never do X, always do Y’ will immediately provoke discussion, ergo attention and clicks.

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Yes Bryan Johnson is almost a guru now. Like Lex Fridman, Huberman, Jordan Peterson, Eric and Bret Weinstein, etc, while Attia is not. The Decoding The Gurus Podcast from 11th of August went into detail on this. And they recommended Peter Attia.

Does Attia have such a mentality? I thought he was more of the opposite, only does the tried-and-true or what makes sense.

Great posts by the way, I like your analysis (not that it should influence you or anything).

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Yea it was IIRC his long podcast with Kaeberlin and Sabatini on rapamycin, where he explained his thinking behind using it vs the current data available. He said that his reason of continuing to use rapamycin is essentially Pascal’s Wager. Given the potential to improve his life, with little downside, why not do it? - was his explanation.

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I’m not sure why he wouldn’t be bullish on taurine supplementation then, seems to increase lifespan in mice and I guess it’s safe, so the symmetry breaker would be interesting to hear about or whether he is logically inconsistent. I think Bryan does a lot of ‘low risk’ therapies, maybe they are not so low risk in combination - but I don’t know how to quantify that. I see Bryan as more of the ‘Pascal’s Wager’ type of person, with like ~100 different supplements (Pascalian Medicine - by Scott Alexander - Astral Codex Ten).

Pascal’s wager can turn into Pascal’s mugging (Pascal's mugging - Wikipedia).

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Interesting I’ll take a listen thanks. I did used to listen to Attia a lot because of his purported rigor. I only wish in an alternate multiverse reality he pursued a long-term scientific career, to see whether his thinking matches his ability to make big discoveries. Ultimately, for me personally, the mark of how scientific a person is, is how well they can execute to make a discovery (analogous to a chef vs food critic, or any critic who understands the theory of something well, but cannot themselves actually make the thing).

It’s not THAT hard to read papers, to critique them, to discuss them. But it’s a fundamentally different thing to make a big discovery due to some non-linear insight. Take, Rhonda Patrick for example. I’ve listened to a number of her stuff back in the day. I’ve glanced over her papers before, and a lot of people look to her as a wealth of knowledge on research. But that doesn’t necessarily translate to very creative research (imo, others may disagree of course).

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I imagine practically speaking one can only do so much without taking away from efforts in other areas. Peter’s got a podcast, other focuses, probably trying to optimize the top things he has conviction in, etc. Typical scientific approach, if I were to jump into his head and thinking, is to watch and wait to see repeated studies validating the results over and over, where you can really start thinking about proper dosing, sources, scheduling, etc.

I don’t know the long-term research on taurine, I only recall that Nature paper.

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Unfortunately we need more Taurine studies like what we have for Rapamycin. Fortunately we’re getting some good ITP candidates this round. Except we now have to wait for results.

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I started taking Taurine in the morning, approx 3-4 g. Noticed that my resting HR improved from 39-40 (during night sleep) to 51.

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I always thought the lower the better, why do you say it improved? @LaraPo

If it’s above 40, then it’s OK, but lower is a sign of bradicardia. For me it’s an improvement. I’m on a beta blocker for BP.

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