#1510

Yeah, I started the process of getting the Cleerly done instead of the CAC this year. It will take another couple days to get the details I guess. I was doing it with email because I’ve been busy during these short days. They want $1300 to do the interpretation and virtual consultation. She never said what it costs for the scan. I think the scan is out of pocket, maybe the consultation is covered. That’s what I’m trying to figure out. I asked all these questions with the email and instead of answering I got a prewritten thing. I’ll peck away for awhile then maybe call if it doesn’t work. Christmas is probably a bad time.

1 Like
#1511

Please let us know the details once you find them out - this is something many of us are likely interested in.

#1512

Yes, they use an inverted evidence hierarchy pyramid.

I was surprised to hear that the Mossad did extensive testing when planning for their Pager attack as highly competent organizations and individuals (no matter what you think of them) I would expect could just figure things out without experimentation and testing.

But it seems you can’t really get past experimentation and testing, which is at the top of the evidence hierarchy.

Of course some people choose to dismiss this, and invert the evidence hiearchy, but it’s their own health and they’re running it like the most slouchy project known to man. And NO, mechanistic studies are NOT testing or experiments.

1 Like
#1513

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6 Likes
#1514

These papers suggest that there is more nuance to LDL

It seems metabolic health correlates better with CAC scores
https://www.internationaljournalofcardiology.com/article/S0167-5273(24)01320-2/fulltext

Some athletic people have very high levels of LDL yet zero CAC

In both papers lower TG and higher large HDL were more predictive of better CAC scores

1 Like
#1515

Nick’s own case report of him being 26 year old with a CAC = 0 doesn’t matter even if his LDL-c has been elevated for 2 years, that’s because 90% don’t have a CAC >= 1 below age 30 anyway.

ApoB measures both the VLDL’s particles that carry TG’s and LDL’s that carry cholesterol, and it’s the total amount of apoB particles that matter the most, since it’s the rate limiting step of ASCVD.

See this thread I made: Apolipoprotein B (ApoB)

2 Likes
#1516

The article is very interesting but…It is not a trial, it’s just a n=1 case history.
For all I know, it might even have been cherry-picked. There is an ongoing study on LMHRs, with a small coort of this group. They might have chosen this individual to make a case against the hypothesis of ApoB.
It would not be a strong case anyway, since we all know that it takes time, 10 to 30 years to develop full-fledged atherosclerosis and the rule may be valid even in the case of extremely high LDL.

But the individual under study had no soft plaque either, so the case does prove that an extremely high LDL (450 m/dL average) does not cause coronary plaque accumulation after a short time (2 years) in at least a very small part of the population of LMHRs.
In other words, I’m pretty confident they cherry-picked the individual with no plaque to make a point. There might be no other individuals with zero plaque in that cohort. We simply don’t know. Skepticism must be kept high because the keto guys are often religious in their zeal and religion is sometimes (but not always) the worst enemy of science.
The time is too short, even if the LDL is high, time might be a governing factor even in the presence of high cumulative values of LDL.

Again, I am curious but we should be waiting for articles with even a simple statistical analysis of the full group (which is a small one), after at least 10 years. It may result that these lean individuals enjoy some metabolic protection from atherosclerosis, but so far it all remains very hypothetical.

3 Likes
#1517

There are studies showing that indeed, even though you are metabolically healthy with no other risk factors, higher LDL is associated with more disease.

I don’t understand how magically metabolic health would make you protected against disease if apoB causes disease independent of anything else in a normal population. It’s a leap of faith without evidence.

2 Likes
#1518

Both poor metabolic health and high LDL levels are bad for your heart and can cause heart issues. It’s doubly worse if you have both.

1 Like
#1519

You can’t have a heart problem if your LDL or apoB is low enough and early enough, even if you are diabetic.

#1520

Yes you can. My mother’s LDL was low but her triglycerides and HBA1C were through the roof. She had a heart attack and stroke. Unfortunately we never measured her ApoB.

3 Likes
#1521

LDL is falsely suppressed at high triglycerides so it wasn’t accurate. Besides, even if it was it is the lifetime exposure that matters, unless you know it was truly low for a long time.

#1522

I’m relieved (thrilled really) to find a local cardiologist/lipidologist well versed in research/protocols of Sniderman and Dayspring. My LDL is high and evidence of atherosclerosis is present although age-related risk factor is very low. He has me starting on 5mg Crestor. Follow-up testing in 6wks.

5 Likes
#1523

Centenarians frequently display improved [i] glucose management and insulin signaling, as well as [ii] a more favorable plasma lipid and lipoprotein profile. They also show fewer overall signs of oxidative stress compared to aged controls [173, 174]. While a significant proportion of centenarians with diabetes also have hypertension, they tend to experience fewer diabetes-related complications, such as lower prevalence rates of peripheral arterial disease, neuropathy, and congestive heart failure [175]. Additionally, this population maintains relatively high cognitive function and physical fitness and is highly resistant to diseases, such as stroke, metabolic syndrome, and CVDs. This suggests that various factors may play a role in preventing or mitigating these adverse outcomes among centenarians. Here, it seems that the combination of a reduced production of pro-inflammatory cytokines regulated by polymorphisms in specific genes and an increase in antioxidants has a positive effect on their health status. The delay in age-induced vascular impairments observed in centenarians has been linked to improved lifestyle conditions, with healthy dietary patterns and regular physical activity. Given that dietary patterns profoundly influence the composition of gut microbiota, it can be postulated that these changes may also, at least in part, help attenuate low-grade inflammation, thereby reducing the subsequent risk of CVDs.

Centenarians—the way to healthy vascular ageing and longevity: a review from VascAgeNet

Open Access Paper:

4 Likes
#1524

Centenarians—the way to healthy vascular ageing and longevity:

a review from VascAgeNet by Sabrina Summer & Soner Dogan et al.

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Open access paper:

4 Likes
#1525

From the article:
“Genetics likely play a substantial role in this vascular resilience, with some centenarians possessing gene variants that protect against excessive inflammation, lipid accumulation, and oxidative damage”

There are so many confounding factors that are ignored when studies are done about centenarians that I tend to ignore the conclusions; as I mentioned before, they tend to have longer telomere lengths. Is this because of their lifestyle, lucky genes, the food they eat, etc.?

When they show pictures of little old men playing cards in “Blue Zones,” it doesn’t suggest that they exercise much. I can attest that, having spent time in and around various small Italian towns, I never observed much physical activity. Germans, however, do a lot of walking and have regular community Volksmarches. The Germans, on the whole, are larger than the Italians. If we took a subset of Germans who are small, how would they match up to the “Blue Zone” people?

We can ignore most of the information about current centenarians. I want to see the results for people who have exercised for most of their lives, have lived healthy lifestyles, and are not small people.

I won’t live long enough to see the results of people taking rapamycin and living what most of the people in the forum would consider healthy lifestyles.
I expect some people in this forum, an extremely small subset of the population, to live to be centenarians.

Search Labs | AI Overview
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The average height of centenarians is around 5 feet, and most are shorter than 5’5". Here are some average heights for centenarians from different countries:
Cuban men: Average 156 cm
Okinawan men: Average 148.3 cm
Okinawan women: Average 138.8 cm
Chinese women: Average 143 cm

According to available information, the average height of centenarians living in “Blue Zones” is generally considered to be around 5 feet 3 inches. This is slightly shorter than the global average, potentially due to factors like diet and lifestyle prevalent in these regions.
Key points about Blue Zones and height:
Definition of “Blue Zones”:
These are geographical regions around the world where people are reported to live exceptionally long lives due to their lifestyle habits.
Height and Blue Zones:
Studies suggest that people in Blue Zones tend to be slightly shorter on average, with a typical height around 5’3".
Possible reasons for shorter stature:
Factors like diet, which often emphasizes plant-based foods in Blue Zones, may contribute to a slightly smaller average height.

1 Like
#1526

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Gonna love it!!
Delivered this morning!

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#1527

When I first cam to Hong Kong, I towered over the local populace. In a crowd I was literally a head taller than everyone else. It was great for watching shows and fireworks as I always had an unobstructed view. Nowadays, the 20 somethings are taller than me, so it’ll be interesting to see how that impacts longevity.

Unfortunately, I probably won’t live to see the results. :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like
#1528

Or they may have been calorie restricted in youth that kept mTOR down

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#1529

Blue Zones may be an artifice of poor record keeping… which makes some people’s official age older than true…
So… ApoB is a risk factor for CVDz… level of Lp(a) is a risk factor for CVDz.
Why do so many studies fail to document levels of Lp(a) when presenting their results.
This failure likely makes interpretation of results less meaningful

1 Like