Ok the thing is no one is refuting getting enough sleep so there no reason to put that in there. Does eating less protein prevent someone from getting 8 hours of sleep? I dont think so. But I agree on the point of controlling calories.
The reason high animal protein shortens lifespan is not because of the “non-organic” feed its because the high BCAA (branch chain amino acids) , which activate mtor. In fact when the calories are the same in animal models the lower protein higher carb group lives longer.
The only time where higher carb may be worse is when someone is prone to overeating/obesity.
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I saw a great podcast that advocated that protein should not be a percentage of diet at all. It should be a set number of grams per day of quality protein. It advocated 1.2 mg/kg/day as a modified RDA for minimal intake and 1.6 mg/kg/day for people doing strength training, regardless of age. So, if you are 68 kg, they advocate 81 g as a minimum per day, then the rest of the calories are rounded out with carbs and fats. If you are strength training, the minimum of 108 g as a minimum per day with the rest rounded out with carbs and fats. By this theory, whether you are taking in 2000 calories or 1600 calories per day the exact same amount of protein should be ingested daily…regardless of age. It went on to say that the body can only “use” up to 40 g of protein per meal, meaning that it may take a couple of meals per day to meet the requirement.
Now, in fairness, this came from someone who dedicated his life to protein research, so I take it as such. Typically to a person with a hammer everything looks like a nail.
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He is so not a diet guru, either. He is entirely fixated on having extra muscle mass. He thinks it will keep him from getting old and frail. And since he views everything from this lens, he can’t see all the strongest evidence. But people apparently are paying him big bucks to steer them wrong.
Rhonda Patrick’s diet is atrocious. I have no idea how she defends her choices.
@Brimstone This is my understanding as well. Probably the exact amount is individual; we need to measure intake and watch for effects. Also, “can only use” doesn’t mean the body won’t burn the protein for fuel (after converting to glucose), only that a person won’t get additional protein synthesis.
I’m still wondering about the intersection of: (1) “anabolic resistance” (lower ability to turn EAA into tissues) related to aging, (2) rapa & other interventions to slow down mTOR periodically, and (3) periodic resistance training to retain/build muscle mass. How to best time the various pieces to get the best of both worlds (muscle growth/retention from resistance training plus recovered youthful mTOR function for immune and other functions). I definitely want a younger immune system (and less chronic inflammation); and I don’t mind having smaller organs, but I don’t want smaller and smaller muscles over time.
AnUser
#85
She probably thinks it tastes good, can’t blame her. Some healthy food is like chinese water torture.
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@Joseph_Lavelle Agreed, and here’s another take:
Matt Kaeberlein reviewed the data from the Longo study regarding protein intake based on age and he felt that the data showed that increased intake should start around the age of 50, not 65. Like you, I’m a firm believer that you need resistance/strength training of some kind as you age to maximize protein synthesis and retain/gain muscle mass. Although I agree that Attia is too muscle focused, I do agree that sarcopenia and frailty are a huge issue with aging that may be somewhat avoidable. My approach currently is 1.6 mg/kg/day, strength training 4x/wk, a supplement regimen that includes rapa 5mg/wk, and a boatload of optimism.
It’s funny, I read a quote from a researcher the other day who said that he had no desire to exercise, he only wanted to do research. So all he was going to do was to put in enough effort be able to “carry his brain around”. I respect that, but it’s not me.
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@Brimstone That is my target as well as I roll back from 2.2 mg/kg/day. I strength train 3x/wk and use Rapa at 6mg/dose every 9/10 days. I keep my strength training away from around Rapa dose day (day -1 to day +1) as I find my recovery is impaired.
I’m not confident a person can separate the health of the body from the health of the brain. I’m working on the whole package. Besides, I’ve been an athlete for much of my life; I love it.
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LaraPo
#88
If it’s 1.2 mg/kg, then a 68 kg person needs only 81 mg (not grams) of protein, which is 0.081 gram. 1 gram = 1000 mg
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You are correct. Grams per kg, not mg per kg.
LOL, that was my bad entirely. grams, not milligrams.
I actually think Attia is great, and he brings a lot of value on both CVD prevention and longevity front… Agreeing or disagreeing with his position is different matter.
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AnUser
#92
I’ve changed perspective again on this topic. I am going back to junk food diet + drugs, drugs was always part of the picture for me though. I doubt healthy diet will lead to any meaningful improvement outside of the areas of certainty. I will have some whole grains for the fiber however. And of course eat fruit + vegetables if I feel like it, etc. The meaningful improvements in health will be in future drug development I think.
Current drug protocol is 5 mg rosuvastatin (Crestor) everyday, soon been 1 month so I’ll check apoB. Will add in rapamycin + doxycycline later and then after that acarbose. Depending on apoB etc I’ll stay on rapa or not or add other drugs/supplements.
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AnUser
#93
We are literally wasting billions if not trillions of $$$, time not included on “healthy food/lifestyle” when we in actuality should be focusing that money and time on reprogramming humans with drugs or other therapies for maximum healthspan etc.
“I read a quote from a researcher the other day who said that he had no desire to exercise, he only wanted to do research.” And here we have the EAXCT reason why I dont judge researchers by their looks… absolutely hate the diet comparison pictures, lol
I am not sure thats a great thing to do , but hey - if that makes you happy you may add more years to your life than ppl depriving themselves constantly…;-)) But I did notice that many ppl who were previously putting their diet regimens at the top of their list for longevity are now downgrading this factor… including Attia
AnUser
#96
Even with my junk diet I have had my apoB tested at 70-80 apoB. I really enjoy my food and it’s not making my apoB go crazy because it’s low in saturated fat (it’s easy to eat tasty with low SFA). If I were on statins AND PCSK9 inhibitors I might’ve not cared about SFA. I don’t see why anyone wants to not care about it though. There is plenty of low SFA/high PUFA/MUFA options.
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arugula
#97
I’m not convinced, although I’d like to believe it to be true. Metabolic pathways that we know about are hideously complicated
http://biochemical-pathways.com/#/map/1
and I’m not sure that this is a problem that can ever be solved.
Some compounds might have some good effects, for sure. I gave my 12.75 year old dog her first dose of rapamycin on Thursday and she’s undergone a noticeable change for the better-- she is now much more involved with me and the other dogs, she’s more alert, more affectionate, demonstratively happier, and it seems to me that her eyes are brighter. I think it just might improve the quality of her remaining life. But I don’t know if it will help her live longer.
On the other hand, we know that junk food is detrimental and that exercise is good and just limiting the bad and keeping the good helps a lot. I would love to eat pizza, cookies, and ice cream and watch Kdramas all day but I know how that lifestyle would make me look and feel and it isn’t pretty and no pill(s) will make up for all the bad that a life like that would entail.
Taking pills to reduce the ill effects of such a life would be like putting band aids over gaping wounds. Also, many experts frown on the idea of polypharmacy as a strategy.
Collard greens, blackeyed peas, a small mountain of other vegetables and fruit, a handful of nuts and seeds, the gym, and very long dog walks for the win!
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AnUser
#98
I am skeptical about claims of diet making you feel bad, I think this is noocebo. People might complain they feel bad after eating McDonald’s, for example. It’s signaling to their group of their status as someone who ‘is working on being healthy’, I think.
I also said that there won’t be any meaningful improvements outside of the areas of certainty. Of course if you eat excess calories or you are overweight, that will ruin your healthspan. Likewise if you have vitamin, mineral, protein, water, or dietary fat deficiencies etc. Or if your apoB is above optimal you will likely get heart disease, ruin your arteries.
You can however eat a junk food diet, keep your apoB normal enough for low dose statins to help you, and keep a normal weight with calorie checking, and vitamin needs with a multivitamin etc.
Regarding metabolic pathways, the error is that you think we really need to know this in detail. Actually it’s more like people guess, then try a substance, and it Just Works. Meaning it’s established in a clinical trial, and have no real clue what’s going on. You don’t have to know how every part of the machine is influenced, if the machine runs longer and better because of the intervention.
I enjoy my food i am looking forward to my breakfast having fasted for a day.
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I would guess that controlling diet comes down to 1) ensuring metabolic health. 2) getting the right balance of macro/micronutrients for your health and specific lifestyle. And 3) not putting crap in your body that degrades the other two. A distant fourth may be “eating the right foods for longevity” but we really don’t know this very well.
My thought is that there are many, many ways to accomplish the first two (many different diets). We might argue optimum protein levels/etc. but the differences are probably not as great as we make them out to be versus pharmacological interventions. Keeping crap out (number 3) is mostly agreed upon, although the definition of “crap” seems to be up for grabs, at least around the edges.
I see a lot of “religious” dieters who deal in absolutes and who rigorously limit their foods/sources/intakes. I try to stay away from tribalists, in part because the information I get from them is always unidirectional.
I’m personally making the bet that if I can stay healthy and gain “strength” (some muscles, longer cardio abilities, immuno health, organ functions) then I will be ahead of the curve for any future interventions. Simple plan, and I feel good doing it (and look good).
If you (@AnUser ) are saying “I am not worrying about eating crap”, I’m not sure this will be a benefit. But if the first two (from above) are satisfied and you are healthy, it may not matter much (it doesn’t for many teens WHEN they are healthy).
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