Yeah, I don’t really buy the argument that it’s too sensitive. It’s getting more specific all the time and at least gives us a chance at finding all kinds of cancers in their earliest stages. Even pancreatic and biliary cancer can be cured if caught early enough.
The first exam is the most anxiety provoking. After that, things can be picked up early, and you don’t have to proceed to something like a biopsy. You could repeat the exam at some point and see if it’s growing if the lesion appears to be indeterminate.

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Sounds like a great idea. How often do you have the scans performed?

Too bad insurance doesn’t cover it. It’s a real bite for people without a lot of disposable income.

My comment FWIW

In our lifetime much sooner than many think, their will be available AI software that will read the data(MRI, CT, PET or any other) collected and software will produce the possible diagnosis.

The “Cleerly Labs*” AI software has been around for some time, 15 years (before all the AI hype). Their are many companies/ventures work on the same ideas for other diagnosis.

*Clearly Labs software is for reading MRI data *“generate a 3D model of the patient’s coronary arteries, identify their lumen and vessel walls, locate and quantify stenoses, as well as identify, quantify and categorize plaque.”

From online source

“The cost of the Cleerly test is $750, plus the consult fee and results explanation.May 12, 2022”

I do not have any financial interest in Clearly, I am an end user/customer who shopping the cost. As most insurance companies will not pay for this.

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So I got my first last year and will repeat again this year to see if anything changed or if they may have missed something first time round ( also because I’m a cancer phobic nut case).

Then I’ll probably go every 2-3 years because cancer is slow growing.

They keep admitting that it’s too expensive and that they’ll lower the price. What they’re actually doing is expanding and keeping the price the same.

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Thanks for that destrider. I knew I heard it from him first but I couldn’t find it. Wow. Four years ago.

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Since then another option has emerged called Ezra.

They do use AI technology and can focus in on one area cheaper.

They do this flash body test that’s fairly affordable and it leaves out the spine and can be done in just 30 minutes.

They also have the more expensive hour long study that includes the spine and a low dose CT of the lungs. Lung cancer detection with MRI still isn’t perfect, CT is preferred. This would be good with past smokers. I don’t fall into that category.

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I would go for Prenuvo test but unfortunately have a small piece of metal in my arm (part of old fistula) and cannot have MRI tests. Is there another non-MRI option?

The other option would be a CAT scan, but too much radiation risk.

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The connection is clear, since my lymphocyte count is reduced drastically on consecutive occasions after just ca 3 mg rapamycin.

I have found a possible reason. I take fenbendazole, on the (small?) chance that it can help keep my high-risk prostate cancer at bay. “All to gain nothing to lose”. But I just discovered that the azole drugs taken in combination with rapamycin can cause havoc with the immune system. Should have looked at drug interaction dangers before…

Have stopped fenben and will cautiously restart rapamycin.

LaraPo and desertshores, thanks for responding it gave me the impetus to search for the drug interaction.
.

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Cara, I have been taking rapamycin for a year for psoriatic arthritis to stay away from such horrors as methotrexate.
Rapamycin/sirolimus 5 mg/week worked wonders for me for at least 6 months. I thought I would never need anything else. But its efficacy declined. I have looked all over this forum for any insights into efficacy decline but have found nothing. After one year, I was back to having problems and started bumping up the dose, up to 17 mg. But it seemed not to make a difference. Then, cut back to 5 mg and will now pause to see if I can reset the system and get another good 6 months. But I saw a rheumy today who got me on track for Enbrel.
If you have something similar and want to share with someone who has been there, feel free to connect over linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/lottamob

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Thanks Lotta, will follow up

Ulf, Are you able to post a link to where you found information about Fenbendazole and Rapamycin interactions? Thanks.

Disclosure: Ppl should be cautious, and that should include doctors. It’s not stupid to be cautious. I don’t agree with MB’s statements. I think he was joking.

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There was a long tweet from @agingdoc1 that I thought provided good perspective.

I try to be selective when I provide an opinion. Occasionally circumstances arise whereby opining may do overall good.

Recently a member of the Twitter community has publicly declared he has metastatic cancer. This individual has also been on high dose rapamycin.

So I have been asked, as someone who has expressed enthusiasm for pursuing translational research whether benefits in animal models extend to people, does this news change my mind?

:radio_button:No, not one bit

:radio_button:Case reports are uninformative regarding causality.

:radio_button:We already know cancer is possible on rapamycin, this is not new.

:radio_button:Cancer is stochastic- I have shared data on risk factors because I believe knowing them empowers us to reduce risks. This is NOT the same as cancer elimination. Chance (and unknown, often stochastic risks( will always play a role. Risk is never zero.

:radio_button:Indeed as physicians when we tell patients they have cancer and they ask why, most often we can share information on risk factors but usually not why they got cancers. Because we do not know, and it generally/usually for practical purposes unknowable.

:radio_button:Model organisms on rapamycin still die. We all do. They just die, on average, later and as far as we can tell in overall better health (except the end).

:radio_button:What what do mice, etc on rapamycin die from? In large part the same conditions that are fatal in control animals.

:radio_button:The difference in life expectancy between rapamycin and control mice is an average. Some mice live shorter as well as longer. The differences in lifespan is an average. Simply put, being in rapamycin stacked the deck (odds) in favor of a longer lifespan.

:radio_button:Back to chance: Mr Rogers was slim and ate his vegetables. Yet he died young, of cancer. Shall we blame his being slim or minding his diet? Or that until the end he had a very disciplined swimming routine? No- case reports simply are not informative in this manner.

:radio_button: These arguments can be extended to other agents too, say individuals taking derivatives of niacin for example. Unfortunately we are mortal, and will see the full gamut of pathology sometimes regardless of our best efforts. Our job is to take the best evidence, respond to data & make our best efforts to follow the evidence and our best chances for good health.

:radio_button:Rapamycin, additionally has data in both animal models and humans. The human data mostly favors less cancer compared to patients on other transplant medicine. To the extent the human data is mixed in some places, the quality is poor, based on patients who are generally already sick (having transplants, being on other meds including immunosuppressants etc) and also on a very particular high dose daily regimen to boot.

:radio_button:We do not have good, reliable data for humans. Apparent outcomes in community based off-label prescribing for geroprotection has if anything been mostly reassuring. To truly understand the relationship of rapamycin with human health we need more, better, rigorously controlled trials. Thus poor data only makes the case stronger for translational research in people. This, and the strong and reliable independently validated and reproducible lifespan extension seen in model organisms compel this research more than ever.

:radio_button:Finally, it should be noted that not only do animal models at physiologically relevant doses tend to have cancer later in life, but even in humans rapamycin and related rapalogs are being used as an adjunct in the treatment of several human cancers.

:radio_button:Though not a cure, human data suggesting extended relapse free survival for some cases is more a source of hope than concern. Indeed, I am aware of no well conducted RCTs in humans that even very high dose rapamycin (10+ mg per DAY) shortens lifespan vs usual care in cancer patients.

:radio_button:Precisely because of animal models and some suggestive data in humans, several low dose rapamycin prevention trials have been proposed.

:radio_button:I believe these, and many more should be done. A major point of animal models is to save us time and resources and allow for highly controlled feasible rigorous study design. The results of this suggest when agents warrant our attention.

:radio_button:I believe that rapamycin warrants such attention, as the highest effect size (magnitude of life extension) and highly reproduced small molecule intervention in normal, healthy, and genetically diverse, naturally aged mice. So too for a plethora of other model organisms too, not to mention validated in rodents of both genders.

:radio_button:Unknowns are not a reason to avoid investigation. They are inevitable. And all our choices of have potential risks and reward.

:radio_button:Rather, promising data and unknowns are a reason for investigation.

:radio_button:With unknowns cons risks… but also potential benefits. This is how we learn. Science is not s religion. We do not have “faith” in a molecule or intervention. We must test it. We study it, and we follow the data wherever it takes us. Both the good and the bad. We must test our theories to determine where we were right, where we were wrong, and where to go next.

:radio_button:This is our way forward. I support geroscience research and all promising work towards improving our health. I will support research in any promising area with potential to improve our health, and am committed to following the data, wherever it takes us, and always with an open and adaptive mind, as new data and evidence present themselves.

:radio_button:Not all seemingly promising interventions will ultimately work out- and most will not, sometimes at a great cost - but we must nevertheless roll up our sleeves and do the actual work to determine which ones.

:radio_button:We all face sickness or decline and death. Marching ahead is how we make progress. We have left the jungle and created civilizations and modern medicine. We still have far to go. Our limits are only defined by physics, our inherent but expanding capacity, and perhaps most of all the time and commitment to prioritizing progress central to elevating our healthspan and quality of life.

:radio_button:So where do we stand now? Progress depends on US. Our reason, our time, our resources- and our commitment.

:radio_button:From these data to date, more than ever, I still believe there is a strong case for vigorously supporting rapamycin trials, without delay.

I came to Twitter was to do good. Among them I saw an opportunity around drawing attention to rapamycin, which I regarded as having the greatest potential for being validated as a potent healthspan extender in suitable candidates. I felt if it held up to it’s promise, it has the potential to not only be an n exiting target for aging biology, but more fundamentally and profoundly, and across the world a true game changer toward better public health.

That was my hope; an inspiration of what might be possible.

After all this time, how has my feeling changed about this and rapamycin?

Not one bit.

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@Dexter_Scott Ecellent post. Thank you. :slight_smile:

His cautious and positive approach is encouraging!

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  • anecdotal observations have been a springboard for further testing and medical progress for decades. Not meaningless.

  • mice studies are notoriously poor in translation to humans
    Why Drugs Tested in Mice Fail in Human Clinical Trials - Science in the News.

  • the Mannick study was the best we have for healthy patients on once a week dosing. Even showed less respiratory infections. However, even a human trial can fail to be reproducible, and unfortunately that seemed to happen in a higher powered phase 3 study

  • the authors of all of the studies on cancer prevention in humans conclude with words like “ possibly, maybe, modest, uncertain “.

  • there’s some theoretical reasons for believing that low dose may improve immune surveillance and prevent immunosenescence. Mainly theory.

  • yet another study suggesting an increase incidence of prostate cancer in RT patients. Might be detection bias. Shouldn’t be just dismissed off hand.

https://www.amjtransplant.org/article/S1600-6135(22)00090-9/fulltext

  • I see in your post alot of ,” I really want to believe “. I was there for 6 years but MB served as a catalyst. This isn’t clear cut or simple. No doctor would prescribe to patients, or even him or herself based on mice.

  • I’m still hopeful that rapamycin improves immune surveillance and prevents cancer, but am very uncertain regarding dose, frequency, or duration.

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Here’s the link to the post, in case you’d like to up-vote it, or engage directly.

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3-4mg/week w/ GFJ.
About cancer, watch Peter Attia’s podcast with

Peter Gatenby or the short form on Rumble “Can Cancer Be Driven to Extinction”. The Attia longer podcast is best but you can get the gist of it on Rumble podcast.

It is the definitive refutation of current medicines approach to beat down your cancer with chemo/Rad and then step back and wait for cancer to recover in a more resistant sinister version. Or as Dr. Sarah Hallberg said, “Don’t be a sitting duck!”

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