#48

Me too. I want to run for five more years, and I don’t care what happens after that.

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#49

In his study of centenarians Nir Barzilai found that many centenarians had a mutation that hindered the cell’s ability to take up IGF. Sounds consistent with the finding that centenarians tend to be smaller (catabolic?) – and in the extreme, tiny (Laron dwarves). The extreme end of the catabolic spectrum.

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#50

Good thing you are probably getting both longevity and strength

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#51

But is that what happens or are you trading more strength now for less strength further in the future?

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#52

But the results were not statistically significant - and the results they looked at were only hours after the stimulation and not if the tendons actually became healthier and stronger?

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#53

Is there new evidence to that view? When it was discussed and debated a while back on the forum it seemed like the balance of evidence was that there is indeed likely such a trade off

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#54

That’s a good question, I’d have to ask, why would I lose strength? How do I lose strength as I age? what can I do to maintain strength as I age?

I think one way to maintain strength is exercise. Which provides an opportunity for injury. Since I now heal quicker than I did 2 years ago and that I recover rapidly from high physical exertion, I find I can work harder and longer than many of my peers. They all complain about their aches, pains and nagging injuries. I don’t have any of those any more.

All my old injuries that nagged at me, like my left infraspinatus from an injury 13 years ago, both my broken ankles that nagged at me for nearly 2 years, all those are non-issues in the past 18 months. Physio did nothing for those issues.

So I find that to be a good thing, personally.

And my hope is that I can continue to be a physical specimen over the next couple of decades LoL!

#55

Not to my knowledge, unless you consider TRIIM-X new, which some people are skeptical of.

Here is what Grok says

“ Low growth hormone (GH) levels, a condition known as growth hormone deficiency (GHD), can lead to a variety of detrimental effects on health and well-being. Some of the key consequences of low GH levels include:

  1. Decreased Muscle Mass: Growth hormone plays a crucial role in muscle growth and maintenance. Low GH levels can lead to a decrease in muscle mass and strength, which can affect physical performance and overall mobility.

  2. Increased Body Fat: GH helps regulate metabolism and fat distribution. Low levels can lead to increased body fat, particularly around the abdomen, and may contribute to obesity.

  3. Reduced Bone Density: Growth hormone is important for bone health. Low GH levels can lead to decreased bone density, increasing the risk of osteoporosis and fractures.

  4. Fatigue and Low Energy: Individuals with low GH levels often report feelings of fatigue, low energy, and decreased stamina, which can impact daily activities and quality of life.

  5. Impaired Exercise Capacity: Low GH levels can affect physical performance, leading to reduced exercise capacity and endurance.

  6. Mood Changes: Some individuals with growth hormone deficiency may experience mood disturbances, including depression, anxiety, and a general decrease in quality of life.

  7. Cognitive Effects: There is some evidence to suggest that low GH levels may be associated with cognitive decline or difficulties with memory and concentration.

  8. Increased Risk of Cardiovascular Issues: Low GH levels may be linked to an unfavorable lipid profile, including higher levels of triglycerides and lower levels of HDL cholesterol, which can increase the risk of cardiovascular disease.

  9. Impaired Immune Function: Growth hormone has a role in immune function, and low levels may lead to a weakened immune response, making individuals more susceptible to infections.

  10. Delayed Recovery: Individuals with low GH levels may experience slower recovery from injuries and illnesses due to impaired tissue repair and regeneration.

It’s important to note that the effects of low growth hormone can vary widely among individuals, and not everyone with low GH levels will experience all of these symptoms. If someone suspects they have low growth hormone levels, they should consult a healthcare professional for evaluation and potential treatment options.”

People can do what they think is best but I’ll be keeping my growth hormone levels in the physiological range if I can help it. I still am not convinced of a longevity trade off, despite what certain mouse and dwarf studies show.

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#56

Sorry I was talking about generally healthy, longevity optimizers - not talking about people who have this deficiency

For context: Estimated prevalence is around 1 to 3 per 10,000 adults. from a quick search

Think we should think about what is good for the other 99.97 to 99.99% of adults who do not have that condition

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#57

Sorry, I’m not thinking about those people :slight_smile:

Why not? because I’m not managing their life.

#58

But we are discussion things in the sense of what is relevant for our peers on the forum - do you know care about most of us on the forum?

And even if not, if you are only talking about people with an orphan condition you should explicitly stay to be transparent

Btw - are you saying that you are among the rare first 0.01-0.03% yourself?

#59

Fair point if we are discussing clinically diagnosed growth hormone deficiency (as Grok wrote).

Let’s face it though, how many doctors see the symptoms listed there and think to diagnose that condition? Those symptoms are also associated with aging and hormonal decline in general. People with lower than average IGF1 levels typically present those symptoms.

So with that in mind, we are talking about longevity optimizers, despite the wording.

It’s also important to remember that HGH rejuvenated the thymus in every “older” person that participated in the TRIIM trials.

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#60

Neo, I’m happy that you are presenting the other side of this discussion so others can make an informed decision. I believe that is what this whole process is about.

I view the members of this forum differently, they are all grown ups making their own decisions to experiment with their health. I’m not anyone’s nanny. Should I care about that to the point where I don’t share my personal ideas that may or may not be harmful to them? or can I not “care” and let others decide for them selves?

I choose not to care what others do with their health.

An no I do not have a rare condition, I’m just a one of a kind rarity :slight_smile:

#61

Also without adequate hGH your tendons and ligaments don’t heal like they do in our youth. When combined with BPC 157 which is purported to be a hGH receptor agonist in tendons and ligaments, hGH can then be more effective in healing those tissues. IF you have any being produced at ones age, mine would be near zero at 69y/o.

As someone who suffered for years with nagging tendon issues, which have resolved over the past 18 months, I’m super happy to be basically pain free and with full range of motion restored.

Even the crunching in my neck that was there for 6 or 7 years is gone.

Quality of life is my goal. Not “longevity”

To be clear, I personally would not use Somatotropin. I’m more interested in having my systems do their job and produce hGH “naturally” at the right time in the circadian/hormonal cycle.

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#62

I still say all that improved quality of life will lead to better longevity in the end

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#63
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#64

Sounds good - it’s just to me that this does not feel like one of those 50/50 cases

For anyone new to the topic - and to both @Steve_Combi and @LukeMV

See below how for geroscientists, human data, investors and at least for dog, the FDA suggest that lower IGF-1 or IGF-1 inhibition is pro longevity.

If your goals are short term health, muscle building, perhaps wound healing the answer might be difference. For longevity the data seems to line up more in one way than the other

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#65

Again if you talk with Greg Fahy the developer of this protocol (I have many times), he will be the first to tell you:

  • the befits are from the Thymus regeneration itself and the immune benefits

  • having to use GH is in order to get that generation, not because they wanted for other reasons to increase people’s GH (perhaps even despite)

  • given that they designed it so the growth hormone is only given during a very limited period of time, and with hope of not having to repeat more than a few times during one’s entire life

so for the VAST majority of the time, their patients DO NOT supplement with GH

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#66

And neither do I…

From the paper I provided above

GHRH and GHS stimulate the secretion of GH. Since most AGHD is caused by pituitary lesions, and these patients, unlike healthy seniors, are unresponsive to GHRH or GHS, there are few studies of treatment with these agents.

Theoretically, treatment with GHRH or GHS should lead to more physiologic GH replacement, leading to a pulsatile rather than prolonged elevation in GH and preserving the ability for negative feedback inhibition of GH by increasing IGF-I. GHRH and GHS effects are influenced by the same factors which modulate endogenous GHRH secretion, such as negative feedback by somatostatin. This normal negative feedback regulation would be expected to result in buffering against overdose. The side effects of GHRH treatment are similar in character to GH treatment but are milder and less frequent. Since the GHS are smaller molecules than GH, and generally resistant to digestive enzymes, they can be administered via the oral, transdermal or nasal routes.

1 Like
#67

From the paper I referenced.

Mechanistic insights into the role of growth hormone and IGF-I in age-related alterations in cognitive function were assessed in several studies by Sonntag and colleagues demonstrating somatotrophic effects on rodent brain aging (26). These studies suggest that deficiencies in GH and IGF-I contribute to the functional decline in senescent rats whereas augmentation of GH or IGF-I improved cognitive function, increased glucose utilization throughout the brain, increased cortical vascularity, and ameliorated age-related decline in hippocampal neurogenesis**.**

A 2006 study of the effects of 6-months daily treatment with sermorelin acetate, a GHRH analogue, on cognitive function of 89 elderly adults found significant improvement on several cognitive assessments, particularly those involving problem solving, psychomotor processing speed, and working memory, but no change on tests reflecting crystallized intelligence (27). Higher GH levels were associated with higher Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale performance IQ scores, and greater increases in IGF-1 were associated with higher verbal fluency test scores, while gender, estrogen status, and initial cognitive function did not interact with the GHRH effect on cognition.

A 2013 pilot study of 30 elderly adults given a stabilized analogue of GHRH, tesamorelin, versus placebo, used magnetic resonance spectroscopy to examine the effects of inhibitory and excitatory neurotransmitters (60). After 20 weeks GABA levels were increased in all brain regions, N-acetylaspartylglutamate levels were increased in the dorsolateral frontal cortex, and myo-inositol (an osmolyte linked to Alzheimer disease) levels were decreased in the posterior cingulate, with similar results across adults with mild cognitive impairment (MCI) and those with normal cognitive function. Treatment related changes in serum IGF-1 were positively correlated with changes in GABA and negatively correlated with myo-inositol. There was a favorable treatment effect on cognition (p = .03), but no significant associations were observed between treatment-related changes in neurochemical and cognitive outcomes.