Davin8r
#305
This was a great, detailed and IMO unbiased review of Attia’s book (both the good and the bad) by an epidemiologist who challenges the current high protein dogma I’ve been accepting for a long time. I’m a paying subscriber to Attia’s podcast and really enjoy his stuff, but I’m becoming more and more skeptical that high protein is truly necessary for muscle gains (rather, the resistance training itself is far more important along with enough high-quality calories in general).
Here’s a much shorter video from a researcher who addresses the issue head-on:
4 Likes
Bicep
#306
This is what they did:
The study speaks for itself. It doesn’t say beef will make you live longer. I agree that if done right vegan could be better for cancer and heart disease. There are many experts who say so.
Beef is easy and supplies all, tastes good. Most likely best for productivity. I generally eat deer because of Neu5gc and take lots of berberine for tmao.
1 Like
Davin8r
#307
The study shows that a marker of muscle protein synthesis increases temporarily after a protein-rich meal, moreso if it’s from animal protein vs certain plant proteins.
The beef industry wants you to then make the leap of faith that this translates into an an actual, real-world effect on skeletal muscle. But does it?
2 Likes
Terri
#308
This may not be a direct response to your question, but I found this article interesting and will adjust some of my approach to muscle building/protein intake/BCCA ingestion in conjunction with my Rapamycin protocol. As a 67 yo female every little tweak and nuance may make a difference.
6 Likes
Agetron
#309
Great article.
Hmmm…
I feel vindicated, for my pound of steak meal post workout … every other day past 6 years. After the gym… my evening meal is always steak and a few glasses of whole milk.
I have read and been told that I was only getting minimal benefit from the steak’s protein… most of the protein wasn’t being utilized. However, based on my muscle maintenance and even growth 
felt those in the know… had it wrong.
Saturated fats are not necessarily bad for the body… look it up. My zero Coronary Calcium Scan score told me that… I was doing fine on my diet of meat.
As we work together on this aging puzzle… we are all different phenotypes… genetic types… there is no one diet for all… watching the gurus undisputed facts fall is a lesson to trust your body.
7 Likes
Davin8r
#310
Just because you can absorb/utilize more than 30 grams of protein per meal does not automatically mean that extra protein/high protein increases muscle mass to a significant degree over and above moderate protein intake (under isocaloric, resistance training conditions).
4 Likes
blsm
#311
I figured this thread would be a good place to ask this question so her goes:
Does anyone know what is considered a good amount of skeletal muscle (in percentage increase) to try to gain in 6 months time from weight training?
2 Likes
Of course, there are a huge amount of variables involved.
“According to research, most experts recommend aiming for a 1-2% increase in skeletal muscle mass per month, or 6-12% over 6 months” (Courtesy of Dr.Oracle)
Comparison of muscle hypertrophy following 6-month
of continuous and periodic strength training
https://sci-hub.se/10.1007/s00421-012-2511-9
4 Likes
blsm
#313
@desertshores, thank you so much sir. I’m trying to set some reasonable goals. I did gain 4.1% skeletal muscle in the last 6 months of 2023 but I cut a lot of fat at the same time. Now that my fat is down I’m going to try to increase muscle mass more.
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@desertshores Do you take taurine? If not, maybe you should…
Tissue taurine depletion accelerates skeletal muscle senescence and shortens lifespan in animal models [92]. For its multiple anti-aging activities, taurine has also been proposed as a possible remedy against sarcopenia [93].
5 Likes
Davin8r
#315
Conclusion: A high-protein (~ 1.6 g kg-1 day-1), exclusively plant-based diet (plant-based whole foods + soy protein isolate supplementation) is not different than a protein-matched mixed diet (mixed whole foods + whey protein supplementation) in supporting muscle strength and mass accrual
So, no real-world differences in so-called “protein quality” between soy and whey.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0261561421003204
More importantly, NO effect of soy or whey protein supplementation over and above the effect of resistance training on muscle training adaptations over a 4 month period.
3 Likes
Vlasko
#316
“In a 12-month-old mouse model equivalent to a 50-year-old human, WSE (Ashwagandha extract) effectively preserved muscle strength, stabilized grip strength, and increased muscle tissue weight.”
“Notably, WSE exhibited a propensity to reduce epidermal and abdominal fat while significantly increasing muscle mass at a dosage of 200 mg/kg.”
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Neo
#317
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Vulcan
#319
I have had a lot of anxious waiting to see the effect of androgen interventions too. There seems to be a lot of inertia in changing testosterone levels
@Neo in my interview with Keith McCormick, he said the key hormone for bone health is estrogen. Testosterone converts into estrogen. So low T can mean low estrogen but not necessarily (the low T can be from too much T converting to E). A supplement like DIM which reduces conversion of T to estrogen might be a mistake for some people.
4 Likes
LaraPo
#321
What did you do to gain 4% of skeletal muscles? Is it by exercising?
Just had a blood draw to check testosterone after ~60 days of taking Clomophene.
I will get the results in a few days and I will post the result.
5 Likes
Tim
#323
@Vulcan I use packets of T gel ordered from India. At a cost of about a dollar per day, I have raised my T level from 180 to 540. I also acquired a case of acne, which I never had even as a teen. I therefore cut my dose in half, to a packet every other day. The acne is gone, but I need to see if there has been a corresponding drop in my T level.
4 Likes
I got some test results back today. The Enclomiphene/Clomiphene that I got from India via Jagdish Nikose is suspicious to me. I have been taking 50 mg Tablets for ~60 days.
It didn’t move the needle for testosterone or estradiol. Previously, I tried Tongkat Ali and got a small boost after just 30 days. My testosterone actually went down after starting the ersatz Enclomiphene from India.
I became suspicious after a month when I felt nothing from taking it, good or bad.
Testosterone levels:
Tongkat Ali, after 30 days = 295 ng/dL From 128 ng/dL to 295 ng/dL
Enclomiphene/Clomiphene, after 60 days = 265 ng/dL
Estradiol:
Tongkat Ali, after 30 days = 17 pg/dL
Enclomiphene/Clomiphene, after 60 days = 19 pg/dL
So maybe the Enclomiphene/Clomiphene increased estradiol slightly, but it is still in the low range.
My plan now is to go back to Tongkat Ali in a little larger dose for 60 days and see what happens. I wish I had been more patient with the Tongat Ali. It actually seems to work.
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