#285

It would be interesting to see how she looks at age 60+. Will she still have all those muscles and if it would age her (appearance) prematurely? I bet she won’t look younger but rather older than her age. Her mTOR now is speeding downhill with extreme speed. Where will it bring her?

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#286

FWIW, there is evidence that decline in aspects of the nervous system is part of sarcopenia. It’s not only about muscle mass.

we suggest that compromised nervous system function may be one of the important contributors to the sarcopenia. From the generation of neural signal to making a muscle contraction, there are a lot of age-associated changes in nervous system which may affect motor performance, muscle strength and muscle mass.

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#287

I think all of this relates to certain proteins not being produced in sufficient quantities and hence the systems that depend on those proteins going wrong,

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#288

I know this is an older post but you took the wrong blood test. You need DHEA-S, not unconjugated.

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#289

Yes, most brain CT scans of the elderly would show some degree of atrophy.

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#290

Another factor here, as I understand it, is the loss of nerve connections to motor units. As nerve connections to muscle fibers are lost (die?) the disconnected muscle fiber become unusable or gets picked up by another nerve connection. Over time, the muscles are controlled by fewer nerves, so less fidelity or fine tuning is possible. And as some muscle fibers are no longer usable, overall strength can be lost.

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#291

Any update? I’m actually curious after reading how you addressed the issue.

#292

@LaraPo, Her muscles will sag like old tattoos.

#293
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#294

Thanks. A good quick read.

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#295

Both T and free T increased to the low normal range. Now I am going to increase my dosage and test again after 30 days. I have felt nothing that I can discern. No side effects, etc.

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#296

Well that’s awesome! Congrats. Feels good when our hypotheses pan out doesn’t it

#297

Not quite there yet. I will feel successful when my free T is in the middle of the normal range without any negative side effects.

#298

Are you feeling any good effects? Notice anything in your strength training?

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#299

I feel good, but then I generally feel good.
Yes, I have noticed increased strength at the gym. I always use the same machines so that the weights involved are always the same—increased max weight on all machines. Increased stamina.
Hopefully, it is not just a placebo effect. The mind is a powerful thing. I have only been on enchlomiphene/clomiphene for a little over a month so it is still too early to tell. Because the stuff was from India, I started a lower than the recommended dose on the package. Now I have doubled the dose.

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#300

Interesting study here:

Higher Muscle Protein Synthesis Rates Following Ingestion of an Omnivorous Meal Compared with an Isocaloric and Isonitrogenous Vegan Meal in Healthy, Older Adults

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022316623727235?via%3Dihub

Meat works 47% better at making muscle in old people than vegan. They did it with just a little steak with an otherwise balanced diet.

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#301

Thx for sharing. Only skimmed it and may look into it more to see if I should up my fish intake like tuna, but please note that are at least two massive issues that appear to be biasing this study.

  • it was known decades ago that it’s optimal to access a well rounded, complete set off amino acids for optimal protein synthesis, muscle growth and strength gains - but they chose half of the vegan protein sources to be incomplete sources of amino acids. It’s as if they chose the composition of vegan protein to be sub-optimal and not as a fair representation of a good choice of vegan food for this context. Which brings me to the second concern:

  • ”This study was funded in part by The Beef Checkoff, Denver, USA, and Vion Food Group, Boxtel, The Netherlands”

Where at least the US one appears to be a lobby and influence dedicated group:

The Beef Checkoff program is a national marketing and research program designed to increase the demand for beef at home and abroad

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#302

Yeah, they should have put some tofu or tempeh in there. Or maybe natto. Rotten soy would supply leucine, lysine and methionine.

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#303

Yes, that’s what I’ve heard as well. It sounds like the way to address the problem is through the nerves more than the fibers themselves.

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#304

The study also didn’t look at actual real-world differences in muscle mass changes (if any) between the vegan vs animal protein groups. Simply throwing protein at a sedentary person won’t do anything for muscle regardless of protein source, so you’d have to compare real world results (lean mass changes over time) in a resistance training+vegan protein group compared with a resistance training+animal protein group, and then ideally compare those with a resistance training+NO protein supplementation group.

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