#1

What do people value:

  • Great internal organs
  • Clarity, focus
  • Feeling good
  • Speed of movement, mind

OR

  • Strength, being able to lift things up

I’m wondering if some trying to push away frailty are really targeting something else, namely reducing the true aging speed, and it’s youth they’re after, not strength. There are those that want strength, but I wonder what people are really after.

For example take Deborah, 46 years old, comes into the anti-aging clinic and doesn’t know what she wants. You could get her VO2 Max to 50 and being able to do 60 kg squat, for instance. Targeting the brain and internal organs might actually be a preference of her, rather than lifting small things or moving freely, hiking, rock climbing.

A hierarchy of preferences of aging phenotypes is probably a better idea rather than equalizing all phenotypes. She might prefer to sit in a wheelchair feeling good, and with a quick mind, rather than having focused on being strong but with mild cognitive impairment.

It also shows which phenotypes should be prioritized, in this case e.g dementia prevention, sometimes they overlap but sometimes they don’t. She probably also would like longevity research, as strength would be somewhat solved. Advice on social media tends to be general rather than specific.

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#2

I don’t think this is that useful as form of taxonomy

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#3

I think the overlap is so substantial that any emphasis in the differential strategies is going to be pretty minimal. Keeing your brain healthy means keeping your CV system healthy, your kidneys healthy, liver and most other organs, metabolic health etc. Exercise will be a part of it, because it impacts all of the above. There may be some subtle emphasis in exercise on some muscle groups vs cardiopulmonary conditioning, but it overlaps substantially. More useful would be identifying specific vulnerabilities. If you have shit kidneys or weak knees, you tailor treatments for the weakest links. You also do so preventatively, if you have a family history of poor renal function, then you will take extra care of those even without current symptoms, avoid NSAIDs, getting on an SGLT2i etc. I think we all do this regardless. Of course it’s bound up to some degree with your preferences beyond strict longevity. You may like sports or very physically challenging activities, and that may lead you to exercise more than is strictly necessary for functional health and longevity. Or you want to preserve your looks because you want to, say, work the streets into old age, so you’ll do more to keep your hair and skin glowing beyond strict health concerns or needed in the rough trade end of things versus more exclusive services etc.

Otherwise, in general you keep in mind the interaction between QOL, healthspan and lifespan.

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#4

I agree with @CronosTempi that people should work on the weakest aspect, but also often there is the reverse of a trade off " Mens sana in corpore sano"

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#5

I resonate with the premise underlying this discussion: that we should understand our own phenotypes, or strengths weaknesses, and prioritize those interventions that match our individual makeup.

I ordered rapamycin, had it here, but never started taking it. The more I read and thought about it the more I came to feel (with great reluctance) that rapamycin is not a good match for my phenotype: petite, ectomorphic, more worried about frailty and sarcopenia based on myself, my test results, (eg quite low insulin) my family history (long lived, frail women who eventually succumb to neurodegeneration). I do take metformin for glucose reduction with potential cancer prevention as a bonus. But I also take a little leucine, as I do not eat red meat nor sufficient protein, and do need to instigate muscle synthesis, especially since taking metformin. (Perhaps it goes without saying: exercise is a key priority).

There is so much encouraging research on rapamycin, and I am bummed that it does not seem to be the right intervention for me. Welcome thoughts on this.

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#6

It’s not only our own risk factors or family history but also what phenotype we’re targeting, It’s worth to keep in mind the target.

Often advice is general and never specific, which to some extent can be explained by the format.

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#7

Everyone needs better mitochondria.

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#8

“Eveyone needs better mitochondria.” So true. So will just need to push the levers that we all know about: exercise, diet, sleep, hot tub (with hot/cold hormesis), some time restricted eating.

#9

I know you are quite informed, so as a petite woman who is worried about frailty, I’m curious as to why you don’t eat sufficient protein.

I noticed you commented your husband doesn’t either… I had assumed this was due to an appetite issue, but now that you’ve said the same for yourself, I’m wondering if this is intentional. And because you are smart, I’m wondering what your thinking is behind this? And perhaps it’s appetite related for you as well?

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#10

Beth, Thanks for the complements! WRT protein, the protein-forward crowd would say that as a 45 kilogram older person I should be getting at least that number of grams of protein per day. I do not tally but I’m sure I’m not getting that amount. My appetite-- and my husband’s – has declined a great deal. We eat hardly any meat (but do eat fish). I do supplement a little leucine to try to compensate. I guess my primary focus has been severely reducing the “bad” stuff: alcohol, sugar, and absolutely no processed food. My main sources of protein are yogurt, cheese (fermented as in gorgonzola) and salmon and a little bit of those super high Fairlife casein-based protein drinks.

I should try harder to get more protein, especially as sarcopenia/frailty are a top concern.

Beth, what are your main sources of protein? suggestions??

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#11

I don’t follow the very high protein recommendations either, and I don’t personally feel you have to. I’ll overshare incase there is anything for you to glean in here.

Because you mentioned you don’t track your protein, it might be interesting for you to enter a typical day of what you consume in Cronometer.com (the free version). I’m always surprised how much protein I’m getting from veggies and things I’m not counting. If you haven’t used it, the big tip is to enter the generic food and not the brand (meaning, lentil pasta, and not xyz brand of lentil pasta). The reason is if you enter the brand, it gives you want the brand provides and not necessarily the amino acid profile. (It’s easy to try it both ways and you’ll see)

As a vegan, I’m constantly being shamed for not consuming enough protein, so I try to pay a lot of attention to this topic because I tend to cave and become insecure about my nutrition.

In that vein, I follow Stu Phillips who is a very well respected protein and muscle researcher. He says most people only need 1.2-1.6 grams of protein per day per kg to get almost everything they can get out of protein. I imagine for older people he would think closer to the 1.6. Recently, on the Attia podcast, Rhonda Patrick said ideally you base it on lean mass and not total weight (best news ever because that means I get 1.6 without any effort), but I have not heard Stu Phillips say as much…but I do plan to ask him and hopefully he’ll answer.

Based on the 1.2-1.6, if I’m using total weight, and not lean mass, I need 55-74 grams per day (I’m close to your size).

The most impactful thing I do is to start my day with two big soy milk lattes each morning. I use one cup of soy in each cup for a total of 24 grams of protein. I also dust the top with demerara sugar… yes, I said sugar :slight_smile: If pinch of sugar gets my soy milk to taste yummy, then I’m all in. At times I add vanilla or grate some dark chocolate on top too.

I use Eden Soy brand because theirs has 12 grams of protein per cup. Here is a link incase you want to see if you like it. They sell it at Whole Foods, but Vitacost is constantly having 20% off sales. You’ve mentioned fairlife brand. I see their milk has 13g per cup.
https://www.vitacost.com/eden-foods-organic-edensoy-soymilk-dairy-free-unsweetened

I eat a lot of salads or roasted veggies and I’ll almost always top them off with roasted chickpeas. (I just open a can, dry them off, mix them with a bit of olive oil and salt… maybe some Urfa chili flakes or what have you and roast them for aprox 9 minutes).
I’ll easily eat 3/4 - 1 can on those days which is up to 21 more grams of protein.

As I mentioned in your thread for your husband, some days I’ll make a big strawberry smoothie with Kachava protein powder. If I’m not having as much protein that day, I’ll blend it with soy instead of water. Kachava has 25grams per serving… use it with soy and you have 37! If I want a protein bomb, I’ll even added an extra half scoop of powder. You’ve mentioned you start your day with a smoothie, so I’d recommend mixing it with a high protein milk of your choice (which your probably already do), but also consider just adding extra protein powder in there. It’s a new trick for me that somehow never occurred to me

FWIW, I was using pea protein for years, but I mostly use kachava now simply because it tastes so much better to me that it encourages me to have them… I was up to my eyeballs in shakes and they started to become a chore.

And at the end of the day, if I had a low protein day, I’ll just have a cup of soy milk because it’s quick and easy to gulp even if I’m full. Sometimes I add cacao/cocoa powder. I made my own almond milk for decades, but discovering this soy milk has made my protein seeking life so much easier.

I was eating more perfectly until not too long ago, but then I realized it’s better to just get some stuff in me than not at all (hello sugar on my latte). So, if you wind up needing more protein, if adding a little processed food or less healthy food can get you there to avoid frailty, then I’d personally feel that is a healthy trade off. I don’t eat junk often, but in that spirit, I keep some breaded fake chicken nuggets in the freezer for the days I can’t face another piece of tofu or beans :slight_smile: You eat dairy and fish, so it’s obviously a little more interesting and tasty for you to get it all in.

PS, it’s a clever idea you have to add leucine. It just so happens that Layne Norton was discussing leucine yesterday in his latest podcast which discussed a study comparing plant to animal protein. He said if you are eating plant based protein, if not having enough of it, by adding leucine to match whey, it should have the same results. I try to have enough quantity of protein in order for the amino acid profile not to matter, but that might be a nice thing to have around on those lower protein days, mainly when I travel.

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#12

Thank you for all the information about how you are getting protein! I will have to explore some of your suggestions.

One of the things I have been doing: I make “protein bars” (usually it comes out much softer so it goes into a baking dish): I mix pea protein, almond flour, almond butter, sometimes a bit of honey or allulose or monkfruit, some nuts and some chopped dried fruit such as unsulfured apricots… Prefer this to smoothies.

Thanks again for the tips!

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#13

I’d love to try your recipe! You can share it here incase others might be interested, otherwise you can pm me! Thank you!

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#14

Nice and thanks for sharing your protocol, Beth.
Great to know about Eden Soymilk. It seems to have two simple ingredients without any emulsifiers and preservatives. I will definitely give it a shot and tweak my morning coffee routine.

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