#21

Can’t find CVD incidence rate. Japan uses person-years, so not directly comparable to US, percent of population. Below, however, is a comparison of CVD death incidence rates per 100,000 among developed countries (HK included). [Page 2].

https://www.aihw.gov.au/getmedia/a8138409-090c-482e-8e5f-e64943be8ff0/hsvd-c06.pdf.aspx

Top six are the Russian Federation, Scotland, Northern Ireland, England and Wales, NZ and the USA.

Bottom three are Japan, HK, and France. The French paradox again.

So if you cannot adapt to the Japanese diet, emulate the French. HK? What do they eat?

Males in Hong Kong have the lowest death rate for cardiovascular disease, the Russian Federation rate being about six times greater. For females, the lowest death rates are found in France, Hong Kong and Japan

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#22

So if you cannot adapt to the Japanese diet, emulate the French. HK? What do they eat?
Hong Kong people eat a lot of lean pork, seafood, and soup but less salty food in general. The men are active, not for exercise but hanging around to chitchat with each other and standing a lot. I am impressed by the stats as I would not think Hong Kong has one of the better CAD stats but their Medicare is pretty good and free.

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#23

was just kidding but it may also be I exercised a lot but had not kept up the calories and protein in take afterwards or I started trazodone 12.5 mg for sleep?

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#24

A different perspective which has nothing to do with diet constituents: there is good portion control (of meal size) in Japan, HK, and France (from my experiences). There is less portion control in USA (for certain), UK/Scotland from my experience. Does CVD trend strongly with BMI? Is BMI (or equivalent) lower / more positive in Japan, HK and France vs USA and UK etc? My gut is that this would be the biggest driver of CVD trends, and then processed food consumption per person would be next (and highly related, and a big driver of BMI), and then down to an individual diet micronutrients.

It may be difficult to ascertain in Russia perhaps from alcohol consumption?

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#25

This is definitely a superior test. CAC only shows calcium. Cleerly shows calcium and vulnerable (soft) plaques and severity of soft plaques in different locations. Ben Greenfield who recently joined our group and has posted recently did a podcast on it and posted the complete results of his test on his website.

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#26

Yes a lack of calories might make you feel weak.

#27

You are aware that this test method{Cleerly] has been around for 15 years, and they preformed over 40,000 scans.

You do not know/hear about it as it is out of pocket, very few if any insurance companies will pay for “Cleerly” testing

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#28

Cleerly adds an AI based interpretation on top of a standard CT Coronary Angiogram : Keep in mind that this has 10x the radiation exposure of just the CAC score and is only recommended if you need to see details of non-calcified atherosclerosis. An alternative way to see non-calcified atherosclerosis without radiation exposure is a cardiac MRI, which actually has slightly better resolution than Cardiac CAT, but prices start at $990 and up, while the CT coronary Angiogram starts at $490 ($750 with the Cleerly version). A basic CAC score is only around $149 (all prices without insurance), but cannot resolve any non-calcified atherosclerosis.

Another no-radiation option to image non-calcified atherosclerosis is coronary ultrasound (CIMT $200-$300), but this has much lower resolution and can only check very large arteries like the carotid artery. An annual coronary ultrasound and CAC score should be sufficient unless signs of atherosclerosis is detected by either method. I will check myself later this year with a CIMT ultrasound and CAC score. If any atherosclerosis is detected I will consider a cardiac MRI to see how bad it is, but at least get more aggressive with LDL lowering treatments (eg add Repatha), and use high dose Nattokinase + Serrapeptase + Lumbrokinase to dissolve existing plaque and recheck after a year. High dose Serrapeptase + Lumbrokinase can cause serious digestive discomfort, so are not recommended on a continuous basis (or for primary prevention) : Coronary imaging is the only way to know if you need these treatments and for how long.

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#29

What about taking a small preventive dose of Lumbrokinase only? Let’s say for a month couple times a year? Do you think it’s a good preventive strategy with not much accumulation?

#30

Curious did anyone have insurance cover the CAC? If so, any tips?

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#31

Even at 64 years was out of pocket… but had the hospital bill insurance anyway…Cigna.

Was about $350… got $190 back. So covered half.

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#32

I was told that during the month of February, which is healthy heart month, hospitals reduce the cost to about a hundred dollars.

Maybe?

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#33

Another thread mentioned using Lumbrokinase one month a year (after resolving the previous deposits with 1 year of Lumbrokinase), and it was sufficient to keep the annual CIMT and CAC score at zero. I tried the standard dose of Lumbrokinase but stopped after 2 days because it triggered diarrhea. Not everyone is that sensitive.

High dose Nattokinase (at least 10800 units/day) is not reported to cause any side effects, but only dissolved around 1/3 of plaque per year, so would need to be taken for a long time. The high quality Nattokinase (NSK-SD Japanese origin) will run around $4/day at that dosage, so perhaps not worth doing unless you have artherosclerosis confirmd by CAC score or CIMT Ultrasound.

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#34

LaraPo

FWIW

I ordered {on 08/30/2023] the following compound/product;, through AMAZON after researching what was available

Amazon.com?

I do not have any financial interest in this product an just trying it.

I plan on adding/taking additional nattokinase{have not decided on how much yet] to this when I start taking it.

Adding to this posting on 08/31/2023 around 6:40pm EST

The addition nattokinase{ordered last night] I will be adding to the above is;

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0BNKXNQHM

It is stated as having 3000FU per soft gel capsules.

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#35

Is there any way, short of doing pre/post CAC scans, of seeing if something like Nattokinase is doing anything helpful?

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#36

Review the paper that was posted on this thread, titled ;

Nattokinase: A Promising Alternative in Prevention and Treatment of Cardiovascular Diseases

See what testing method was use and or ask the POC* of the paper.

*Point of Contact;

Yiguang Lin, School of Life Sciences, University of Technology Sydney, Broadway, NSW 2007, Australia. Email: ua.ude.stu@nil.gnaugiy

FWIW

MRI would give you the highest resolution, unless you know someone*, Cost around $1,000 {in the US] per scan out of pocket.

*someone willing to do the scanning to collect data for an N-1

As posted above MRI has highest resolution and no radiation exposure.

My thoughts as a group we need to develop a “skunk works” to have access/use of equipment to try our own ideas. Access to use not purchase at minimal or no cost. Yes become/be a “shnorrer”.

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#37

One thing I’ve tried in the past was identifying clinical trials that do the sort of testing that I want to get done, and who want a “control” group.

For example - about 4 years ago before I was starting rapamycin I thought it would be great to get a pre and post heart scan to identify my heart’s ejection fraction (given the success in the first Rapamycin Dog study about 5 years ago). So - I could a clinical trial that was looking for people in a control group in a heart study and they were going to do pre and post ejection fraction scans (I forget what they did to scan…). I contacted the study leaders, got on the list but for whatever reason they didn’t go forward with the study (or at least my control group).

But - I do think its a good way to get the testing for free. Just search on Clinicaltrials.gov for the test you want, find a medical center close by, and volunteer!

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#38

I had absolutely no risk factors for heart disease, and in particular, my cholesterol numbers were always great. I had good BMI and was getting lots of exercise. My doc always told me at the annual physical, “everything is great, keep doing what you’re doing.” Then I had a heart attack anyway. (My doc said, “oh well, genetics I guess” - though I had no family history.) Getting a CAC would really have helped me - could even have been lifesaving - but I never even heard of it until after I had a heart attack and started listening to podcasts about heart disease.

From what I hear, they won’t do a CAC after you’ve had a CABG, but I don’t know any other way to assess the progress of my artery plaque.

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#39

Exactly even at 64 years old… never heard of it… even my physician was taken aback about my request to have him order it for me.

Funny thing is… he’s a bit over weight and decided to get one too at age 45 years. His nurse kinda let that one slip when setting me up.

Said, “Oh the doc is getting one on this date. They have openings… you want to go then? I just got him scheduled.” Lol.

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#40

I understand it is the soft plaques that cause all the trouble. The hard, calcified plaques are essentially scars (permanent scabs?) that have hardened to remove the risk of rupture. The CAC alone can’t provide the full picture of the risk. Is that essentially correct?

Also, statins increase calcification but that is a reduction in risk due to shrinkage of the soft plaques, is what I’ve heard.

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