#27

How about try using Hemp oil instead?

#28

“Experts estimate that as little as 5-21% of ALA converts into EPA, and a mere 1-9% to DHA.” (source)

2 Likes
#29

True but your body only converts what it needs… and everyone reacts differently and this might be a better path for you. I take hemp oil because I do not want any mercury from fish oil. That is why it is simple for me.

1 Like
#30

You can use algae based supplements to avoid mercury, but also brands like Nordic Naturals make sure there is no mercury in their product. The problem with hemp oil is that it is indeed rich in ALA, but very little of this gets converted to EPA/DHA, especially if you have significant omega 6 fatty acids in the diet.

It isn’t cheap, but I’d suggest an Omega 3 index would be in order and if >8% with Hemp awesome! However, my experience is that almost everyone will be suboptimal without direct supplementation or a diet very rich in fish.

4 Likes
#31

I got this kind of depressing mode with a sensitivity to some emotional ideas on 2 occasions basically when i started taking omegas 3 (EPH+ DHA) and the second period was after retaking them after stopping for 21 days because i was on work mission and i forget to bring some omega3s with me and in both situations i noticed the effects were less if i take them at night so maybe it’s transient period when the brain get high levels after consumption?

2 Likes
#32

Notably fish oil had an insignificant and in some cases negative effect on mice in the ITP: MPD: ITP survival analysis:   fish oil

2 Likes
Predicting Alzheimers & Dementia (and minimizing risk)
#33

They used 15,000 and 50,000 ppm. If I’m correct that’s 2,500 mg/kg and 8,333 mg/kg. That’s equivalent to 203 mg/kg and 677 mg/kg in humans. So for a 60-kg adult, that’s 12 g and 41 g/day of fish oil. They note “Microencapsulated fish oil (containing DHA, minimum 132 mg/g of powder; and EPA plus DHA, minimum 168 mg kg−1 of powder) was purchased from Ocean Nutrition Canada (Dartmouth, NS, Canada), and incorporated into food at a concentration of 15 000 and 50 000 ppm.” I assume there’s a typo (otherwise, the EPA amount was very low) and that it’s >132 mg/g of DHA and >168 mg/g of EPA, which is consistent with the average fish oil on the market. Using these numbers we get the human equivalent doses (in a 60-kg adult):

  • 15,000 ppm: 3.6 g/day of omega 3 (2.0 g EPA and 1.6 g DHA)
  • 50,000 ppm: 12.3 g/day of omega 3 (6.9 g EPA and 5.4 g DHA)

That’s very high. So it’s good news that it had no significant effect. They should have tested 5,000 ppm.

I’ve just sponsored EPA, DHA and EPA + DHA in C. elegans, wait and see…

7 Likes
#34

Omega Plus doesn’t give the EPA vs DHA breakdown (% in whole blood): https://omegaquant.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/OmegaQuant_O3plus_v15Dec2020.pdf

Only “Omega-3 Index Complete Test” gives that: https://omegaquant.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/OmegaQuant_O3complete_v15Dec2020.pdf (page 4)

3 Likes
#35

What happens if you eat a tin of sardines or some salmon? Still feelings of depression?

#36

I’ve never noticed anything like that. But I haven’t properly tested either…

#37

Skip the supplements and eat the real food.
I eat either a tin of sardines or some salmon every day except my Rapa day where I try to be as low as possible on protein consumption.

3 Likes
#38

@RPS have you measured your omega index for see the effect? I prefer a food approach if that would work.

1 Like
#39

I dug more on this topic. I couldn’t find any confirmation that omega 3 can cause depression in some individuals, but there’s evidence that only supplements with 100% EPA or EPA > 60% lower depressive symptoms:

Clinical impacts of n-3 fatty acids supplementation on depression symptoms: an umbrella review of meta-analyses 2023

n-3 PUFA (EPA, DHA and combination of these FA) supplementation has a significant improvement effect on depression indices in most studies. This result was more pronounced in major depressive disorder. There is a direct relationship between dose of n-3 PUFA and ES on depression. n-3 PUFA have not a superior effect on depression compared with anti-depressant drugs. However, EPA has more anti-depressive effects than DHA. In conclusion, n-3 PUFA supplementation could be considered as an effective therapeutic adjuvant approach in relieving depression symptoms.

Omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids in depression: insights from recent clinical trials 2023

Higher doses of eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) (>1 g/day) improved measures of depression, particularly in MDD with elevated inflammation markers, comorbid cardiovascular diseases, late-life onset, and children and adolescent populations.

Efficacy of omega-3 PUFAs in depression: A meta-analysis 2019

The meta-analysis showed an overall beneficial effect of omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids on depression symptoms (SMD = −0.28, P = 0.004). Compared with placebo, EPA-pure (=100% EPA) and EPA-major formulations (≥60% EPA) demonstrated clinical benefits with an EPA dosage ≤1 g/d (SMD = −0.50, P = 0.003, and SMD = −1.03, P = 0.03, respectively), whereas DHA-pure and DHA-major formulations did not exhibit such benefits.

3 Likes
Predicting Alzheimers & Dementia (and minimizing risk)
#40

A shot in the dark but in order to utilise correctly Omega 3 in the brain it is thought you need a good Vitamin B status: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916523277655

Have you tested your vitamins?

2 Likes
#41

Thanks. My B vitamin levels are good + this paper might be incorrect (see: What Are the best Neuroprotective Agents and Why? - #29 by adssx ).

#42

@Joseph_Lavelle maybe I should check but haven’t done so.
Honestly, if my body can’t absorb omega 3’s from the fish then I doubt very much that it could absorb them from the fish oil capsules.
I’m sticking with the sardines and salmon especially as I love the taste of both of them!! ( lucky me as I know many people don’t e.g. my son).

2 Likes
#43

@RPS I’d think of it like Vit D….if you are a poor absorber, get more however you have to to get enough.

Sardines. About 8 years ago I saw sardines at Costco and I thought “why not”. I bought 5 tins.

I got home and ate a tin of sardines. And then I sat still for a few minutes while I tried not to vomit. Then I threw out the rest of the sardines.

I wonder if I’m ready for sardines now?

I want to like sardines. How does a person learn to like sardines?

1 Like
#44

I’m afraid you either like them or you don’t, lol. Certain tastes are learnable, like bitter tastes are frequently disliked by kids and teens, but you learn to like them as an adult. That’s what happened to me, as a kid I hated olives, coffee and certain vegetables, now I love them. Spices are another.

But other tastes don’t seem to be learnable, meaning going from not liking to liking. I think fish is one of those. Often textures are hard to go from hating to liking… I never learned to like eggplant, and I tried many times, same with certain seafood calamari, mussels, fish. If you’re introduced to those you either like them or you don’t.

Also depends on the person. Some are naturally adventurous culinarily, others are definitely not. There’s no rhyme or reason.

You could try to combine sardines with something else, sometimes you can change the context and adapt by modifying the texture and changing the taste, by say, adding sardines on a sandwich with cucumbers and tomatoes. Or try different sardines, in olive oil, not water, or smoked etc. You should dig those cans out of the trash and experiment with different flavor combinations. But in the end you may just not like sardines, it happens and that’s fine, ss the saying goes, there’s plenty of other fish in the ocean😋

#45

Sorry Joseph, can’t help you there. I was fed sardines as a kid and have always liked them.
(Have to be a bit careful though - I started eating 2 tins a day and my uric acid started going up too high. 1 can a day is the sweet spot for me. ).

2 Likes
#46

It’s rare to find negative reports on the use of fish oils (other than from Brian Peskin the PEO guy), so I thought I should mention mine. Over the years I have tried fish oils 4 times, trying to source the best of the best out of concerns for rancidity and mercury. Each time I was fine for about 3 days before getting hit with severe fatigue, unable to function and on the couch.

I never thought of it as depression as there did not seem to be any mental/emotional component other than the fear that it might not go away. Stopping the fish oil always resolved the fatigue within 24 to 36 hours. I’ve never been able to find a mechanism of action for this effect. Glad it’s being discussed!

3 Likes