#1

Fish oil or omega 3. No matter the brand and dose. For instance, I recently tried Nordic Naturals and one pill in the morning (325 mg EPA + 225 mg DHA) makes me depressed and unmotivated for the whole day.

I found that surprising, given that many papers found a neutral or positive effect of omega 3 supplementation on mood. However, when googling “omega 3 makes me” one of the first suggestions is “depressed” and there are dozens of Reddit posts about that, with answers claiming that it’s due to the cholinergic effect of omega 3. It’s apparently called the “adrenergic-cholinergic imbalance hypothesis” but it seems to be nothing more than a hypothesis.

Still, assuming that this hypothesis is correct, ChatGPT tells me that my options are:

  • Supplement with EPA only (as it doesn’t increase acetylcholine like DHA apparently)
  • Increase norepinephrine to counterbalance (L-tyrosine? Caffeine? Etc.) + lower choline intake (I take B complex supplement that includes choline)

Does this make sense? (poke @DrFraser)

[November 2024 update: read the thread below, yes, DHA supplementation can make some people depressed, as confirmed in the large VITAL trial and several meta-analyses. On the other hand, EPA supplementation has anti-depressant properties.]

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#2

I think it could be not entirely the epa/dha.

My go to list for patients with goal to start ~1 gram/day DHA/EPA include:
1 softgel of their DHA product, which is 325 mg of DHA Amazon.com PLUS
1 softgel of their EPA product, which is 250 mg of EPA Amazon.com
OR
2 softgels of Nordic Naturals ProOmega: https://amzn.to/4atLacm
OR
Bronson Omega 3 Fish Oil Triple Strength 1 capsule/day = 800+ mg EPA/DHA https://amzn.to/3LwpbaM

The Bronson is the most cost effective, I often have people do 2 capsules on M/W/F and 1 on the other days.

Here is what Vera-Health.ai says:
The question of whether docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) or eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) causes depression or low energy is complex. Current evidence does not support the notion that these omega-3 fatty acids directly cause depression or low energy. In fact, most research suggests potential benefits for mood and mental health.

Several studies indicate that EPA may have a more significant impact on mental health than DHA. For instance, higher red blood cell EPA levels have been linked to improved cognitive functioning in depressed youths 5. Additionally, EPA has been associated with a lower prevalence of depressive symptoms in older adults with a history of myocardial infarction 2.

However, the evidence is not entirely consistent. Some studies have found no significant effect of EPA and DHA supplementation on mood and cognitive function in mildly to moderately depressed individuals 3. Similarly, while DHA supplementation has shown potential benefits in major depressive disorder, more rigorous trials are needed to confirm these findings 4.

Regarding energy levels, the relationship is less clear. A study found that DHA supplementation improved sleep efficiency but was associated with reduced feelings of energy and restfulness compared to placebo 7. This suggests that while omega-3 fatty acids might impact sleep quality, their relationship with energy levels requires further exploration.

In summary, there is no substantial evidence that DHA or EPA directly causes depression or low energy. Most research points to potential benefits, particularly for EPA in mood and cognitive functioning. However, individual responses can vary, and more research is needed to fully understand these relationships.

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#3

Yes that’s what I tried. And it makes me incredibly depressed. I reproduced the finding several times (not blinded though :slight_smile: ). It’s unlikely to be placebo / nocebo because I had the exact opposite expectation. And there are dozens of other people reporting the same thing. So at this stage I’m convinced. I can’t find any EPA only supplements. So I guess it solves the problem: no omega 3 for me!

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#4

I’d try another brand and mix.

#5

Eat salmon for the win

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#6

I got the same thing when i took it in the morning even with telmisartan 40mg so i started taking it before bed and the anxiety depression effects goes away for me after consistent dosing

#7

As I wrote in my initial post: I tried different brands to no avail.

#8

Do they go away or is it just that they happen during the night while you’re sleeping and you don’t feel them?

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#9

Sorry for not reading that. Have you tried Algae based? Probably won’t make a difference. How do you do (apart from the wallet biopsy) with having some salmon, mackerel, sardines, Herring, wild caught? You may have to go for that - but who knows, might work fine for you, as often times pulling things out of their natural mix of nutrients (such as isolating fish oil from the fish itself) can cause unintended effects.

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#10

Yes it might be the way to go!

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#11

I’d try EPA alone, specifically Carlson Elite EPA. I have the same effect of depression when supplementing with DHA or DHA-containing fish oil. No problems whatsoever with EPA.

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#12

I do Carlson’s Elite Omega-3 once a week, and Pharmepa Restore Pure EPA, twice a week, wild caught salmon from TJ’s once a week - FWIW, never noticed any effects of any kind. Peter Attia uses Carlson’s I believe.

I wonder if the issue for you is the omega-3, or some kind of interaction between the omega-3 and something else you’re taking. Perhaps googling for “omega-3 interactions” might be interesting?

#13

Thanks I’ll give a try to Carlson.

I considered it but:

  1. I couldn’t find any interactions with what I take.
  2. I noticed the problem years ago when I wasn’t taking any other drugs.
  3. There are so many reports (including 2 others just here just today!) that it’s unlikely all these people are using the same drug or supplement.

So it must be that some people for whatever reason are intolerant to DHA :man_shrugging:

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#14

I have sedation from Omega 3 and creatine , but not from each one seperately. Lasts 4h or so

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#15

Break open the capsules to make sure they are not rancid. Taste the oil inside.

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#16

I suffered from depression for years, on and off. I have no idea why, but it’s not attitude. It’s biochemical. My attitude has never changed. It stopped years ago when I got the my first sperti vitamin D lamp.

It’s hard to cover all your skin with one little lamp in 5 minutes, so I have 3 now and use them simultaneously after my shower when naked. I also use NIR photobiomodulation at the same time, which they say is the wrong time of day to do it but that’s when I’m available. I think if you use it you can probably use the DHA too.

N=1.

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#17

Yes I did that, they’re perfect.

By the way, some people suggest that DHA might be at best neutral and at worst detrimental and that for cardiovascular health only EPA matters:

However EPA seems associated with more AF:

:thinking:

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#18

@adssx What I’ve heard and read is that DHA is important for brain health

Here’s a study: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916523055235#:~:text=DHA%20has%20been%20shown%20to,and%20olfactory%20responses%20(3).

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#19

The evidence is unfortunately weak for DHA and brain health. Cardiovascular health is an important factor for brain health so if EPA is better for that, I’m team EPA until proven otherwise.

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#20

Confirmed: Supplementation with oil rich in eicosapentaenoic acid, but not in docosahexaenoic acid, improves global cognitive function in healthy, young adults: results from randomized controlled trials 2021 (note that the paper you linked above was from the same journal but 2013)

Ciao DHA.

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