I’ve been upping my fish oil lately now that I’m taking aspirin with it to get proresolving mediators. About 1g each EPA and DHA. I feel great.
adssx
#22
I guess it’s the usual “Everyone is different”. Have you ever measured your omega-3 index? If you go at the end of the report and calculate your DHA/EPA ratio, what is it? Mine is 4 (4 times more DHA than EPA). But I don’t know if this has any kind of clinical significance (most papers only focus on the omega-3 index and this 2022 OmegaQuant blog post says the jury is still out on EPA vs DHA)
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adssx
#23
Of note, the boss disagrees:
Citing: Circulating Docosahexaenoic Acid and Risk of All-Cause and Cause-Specific Mortality 2024
We focused on DHA in this meta-analysis as it was the only specific omega-3 fatty acid level available in the UKBB because nuclear magnetic resonance technology was not able to reliably measure plasma EPA in this population. Blood levels of DHA but not EPA show strong statistically significant inverse associations with risk of Alzheimer disease. On the other hand, EPA monotherapy has been shown to be effective in reducing risk for major adverse CV events. No similar trials of DHA monotherapy have been undertaken. Levels of EPA+DHA have been shown to be inversely associated with mortality; however, whether EPA or DHA is more strongly associated with improved life expectancy remains uncertain.
What’s interesting, here are my OmegaQuant results (before starting omega 3 supplementation):
- Omega-3 index: 5.37%
- EPA: 0.49%
- DHA: 3.06%
So if I understand correctly, I’m already well above the top quintile for DHA (2.48%) but my omega-3 index is average (“the mean intake of DHA+EPA in the United States is only approximately 100 mg/d and the mean omega-3 index is approximately 5.4%”). Could it be that people like us @Davin8r @hamida_abdenour who experienced depressive symptoms from DHA already have high DHA? Have you done the test? If true, then one should supplement in EPA and DHA according to the test results to reach DHA > 2.48% and omega-3 index > 8%? Wdyt @DrFraser?
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My Omega index is 10.32%. I don’t see the breakdown you describe. Perhaps I didn’t pay enough…
adssx
#25
Ah yes the basic test just gives the omega-3 index. The “complete test” gives the breakdown EPA vs DHA vs ALA, here’s a sample report: https://omegaquant.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/OmegaQuant_O3complete_v15Dec2020.pdf
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I goal for 8% Omega 3 index in those with no ApoE4’s and 10% in those with an ApoE4.
AI’s review of does EPA convert to DHA, which is relevant - is very little. So it is important to do the OmegaQuant Plus rather than basic to see DHA and EPA. I usually am using the Omega Check through Lab Corp, which is $69 and goes to Cleveland Clinic, takes a month, but gets all the details on everything.
Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) can convert to docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) in the human body, but this conversion is generally limited and inefficient. The process involves a series of enzymatic reactions that elongate and desaturate EPA to form DHA. However, the conversion rate is typically low, often less than 5% in most individuals, and some studies suggest it may be even lower, around 0.1-1% 2.
Several factors can influence this conversion efficiency. Gender plays a role, with women generally having slightly higher conversion rates than men. Idade can also affect conversion, as efficiency may decrease with age. Genetic variations can impact an individual’s ability to convert EPA to DHA, and dietary factors, such as a high intake of omega-6 fatty acids, can inhibit the conversion process. Additionally, certain health conditions may affect conversion efficiency.
Due to the low conversion rate, it is often recommended to obtain DHA directly from dietary sources or supplements, especially for individuals with increased needs, such as pregnant women or those with specific health conditions. Both EPA and DHA are found in fatty fish, algae, and some fortified foods. Supplements often contain both EPA and DHA in varying ratios.
While EPA has its own health benefits, DHA is particularly important for brain and eye development and function. The limited conversion of EPA to DHA underscores the importance of obtaining both fatty acids through diet or supplementation when indicated. Understanding these metabolic processes helps in making informed decisions regarding omega-3 fatty acid supplementation to achieve optimal health outcomes.
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adriank
#27
How about try using Hemp oil instead?
adssx
#28
“Experts estimate that as little as 5-21% of ALA converts into EPA, and a mere 1-9% to DHA.” (source)
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adriank
#29
True but your body only converts what it needs… and everyone reacts differently and this might be a better path for you. I take hemp oil because I do not want any mercury from fish oil. That is why it is simple for me.
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You can use algae based supplements to avoid mercury, but also brands like Nordic Naturals make sure there is no mercury in their product. The problem with hemp oil is that it is indeed rich in ALA, but very little of this gets converted to EPA/DHA, especially if you have significant omega 6 fatty acids in the diet.
It isn’t cheap, but I’d suggest an Omega 3 index would be in order and if >8% with Hemp awesome! However, my experience is that almost everyone will be suboptimal without direct supplementation or a diet very rich in fish.
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I got this kind of depressing mode with a sensitivity to some emotional ideas on 2 occasions basically when i started taking omegas 3 (EPH+ DHA) and the second period was after retaking them after stopping for 21 days because i was on work mission and i forget to bring some omega3s with me and in both situations i noticed the effects were less if i take them at night so maybe it’s transient period when the brain get high levels after consumption?
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Notably fish oil had an insignificant and in some cases negative effect on mice in the ITP: MPD: ITP survival analysis: fish oil
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adssx
#33
They used 15,000 and 50,000 ppm. If I’m correct that’s 2,500 mg/kg and 8,333 mg/kg. That’s equivalent to 203 mg/kg and 677 mg/kg in humans. So for a 60-kg adult, that’s 12 g and 41 g/day of fish oil. They note “Microencapsulated fish oil (containing DHA, minimum 132 mg/g of powder; and EPA plus DHA, minimum 168 mg kg−1 of powder) was purchased from Ocean Nutrition Canada (Dartmouth, NS, Canada), and incorporated into food at a concentration of 15 000 and 50 000 ppm.” I assume there’s a typo (otherwise, the EPA amount was very low) and that it’s >132 mg/g of DHA and >168 mg/g of EPA, which is consistent with the average fish oil on the market. Using these numbers we get the human equivalent doses (in a 60-kg adult):
- 15,000 ppm: 3.6 g/day of omega 3 (2.0 g EPA and 1.6 g DHA)
- 50,000 ppm: 12.3 g/day of omega 3 (6.9 g EPA and 5.4 g DHA)
That’s very high. So it’s good news that it had no significant effect. They should have tested 5,000 ppm.
I’ve just sponsored EPA, DHA and EPA + DHA in C. elegans, wait and see…
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adssx
#34
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RPS
#35
What happens if you eat a tin of sardines or some salmon? Still feelings of depression?
adssx
#36
I’ve never noticed anything like that. But I haven’t properly tested either…
RPS
#37
Skip the supplements and eat the real food.
I eat either a tin of sardines or some salmon every day except my Rapa day where I try to be as low as possible on protein consumption.
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@RPS have you measured your omega index for see the effect? I prefer a food approach if that would work.
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adssx
#39
I dug more on this topic. I couldn’t find any confirmation that omega 3 can cause depression in some individuals, but there’s evidence that only supplements with 100% EPA or EPA > 60% lower depressive symptoms:
Clinical impacts of n-3 fatty acids supplementation on depression symptoms: an umbrella review of meta-analyses 2023
n-3 PUFA (EPA, DHA and combination of these FA) supplementation has a significant improvement effect on depression indices in most studies. This result was more pronounced in major depressive disorder. There is a direct relationship between dose of n-3 PUFA and ES on depression. n-3 PUFA have not a superior effect on depression compared with anti-depressant drugs. However, EPA has more anti-depressive effects than DHA. In conclusion, n-3 PUFA supplementation could be considered as an effective therapeutic adjuvant approach in relieving depression symptoms.
Omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids in depression: insights from recent clinical trials 2023
Higher doses of eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) (>1 g/day) improved measures of depression, particularly in MDD with elevated inflammation markers, comorbid cardiovascular diseases, late-life onset, and children and adolescent populations.
Efficacy of omega-3 PUFAs in depression: A meta-analysis 2019
The meta-analysis showed an overall beneficial effect of omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids on depression symptoms (SMD = −0.28, P = 0.004). Compared with placebo, EPA-pure (=100% EPA) and EPA-major formulations (≥60% EPA) demonstrated clinical benefits with an EPA dosage ≤1 g/d (SMD = −0.50, P = 0.003, and SMD = −1.03, P = 0.03, respectively), whereas DHA-pure and DHA-major formulations did not exhibit such benefits.
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A shot in the dark but in order to utilise correctly Omega 3 in the brain it is thought you need a good Vitamin B status: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002916523277655
Have you tested your vitamins?
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