No, never had that experience.
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I can say for a fact that heightened DHT improves a mans libido dramatically and improves masculine traits. This is nothing to do with hair, I also didn’t mention muscle mass or growth. The increased energy from higher DHT will give you greater drive while exercising however.
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You mean exogenous DHT because endogenously produced DHT seemingly doesn’t have much of an effect on libido, muscle mass or “masculine traits” (unless you think a bald head and enlarged prostate is manly). But TRT works just as well and it doesn’t cause the same issues.
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I do mean exogenous though I imagine endogenous produces similar results. Exogenous just allows you to reach higher levels. I imagine the 3α-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase and 3β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzymes still degrade it in muscle tissue though there may be a point of saturation where the enzymes can no longer keep up, but the main benefit for muscle is the increased energy.
I’ve used it before, and I can say for a fact it has tangible positive psychological masculine benefits as well as improvements of libido and sexual function.
Yes it can cause hair loss but the conversation isn’t as simple as “it causes hairloss therefore trash hormone”, it’s complex and something that needs to be resolved so men can enjoy the benefits of DHT without the negatives.
Not quite. It shouldn’t be used outside of the context of male hormone replacement as it shuts down the HTPA. In the context of TRT if you are not converting enough testosterone to dihydrotestosterone the addition of exogenous DHT can help, and it can also offset excess aromatization to estrogen.
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Then the rate of libido loss would be closer 70-90% than 1-4% in studies done on 5ar inhibition.
I imagine the 3α-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase and 3β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzymes still degrade it in muscle tissue though there may be a point of saturation where the enzymes can no longer keep up, but the main benefit for muscle is the increased energy.
Yeah exogenous DHT would likely help with muscle growth but so would exogenous testosterone.
Yes it can cause hair loss but the conversation isn’t as simple as “it causes hairloss therefore trash hormone”, it’s complex and something that needs to be resolved so men can enjoy the benefits of DHT without the negatives.
DHT’s worst effects happen on your hair follicles, in your prostate and possibly in your blood walls. There is no known way to date that can stop DHT from “sticking” to androgen receptors in only some locations but not in others.
If you’re going for anabolism then utilize testosterone and maybe something like oxandrolone. DHTs benefits are more for psychological and sexual health, and for these purposes it is quite profound.
RU58841 is an option though risky. But I think something that bypasses 5ARi would be a gamechanger, there do appear to be a number of hairloss drugs in the works that don’t utilize 5ARi. Fingers crossed.
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I still prefer something systemic that also stops my prostate from growing. Be it 5ar inhibitors or something else.
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That’s cool. I just want guys to have options.
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Ambient
#350
How would you explain a trans MTF being fully functional?
As they take various meds which can lower testosterone, and DHT. While Raising estrogen, and progesterone.
Some are less prone to the effects than others but I imagine they take things like high dose tadalafil to keep it up.
I guarantee if they took exogenous DHT they’d have a much higher libido and sexual function, so to say fully functional is to ask how long is a piece of string. It’s just how it works.
Also 5ARi doesn’t just stop DHT it stops the production and breakdown of a number of different hormones.
Prostate issues are strongly linked to splicing.
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I’ve looked into this in the past and really only 5ar1 may be important in some cases. Inhibiting 5ar2 is sufficient to stop hairloss and prevent prostate growth.
How do we correct splicing?
Splicing is linked to acetylation. This is my current acetylation infographic. I added a bit this morning.
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Ambient
#356
Many factors in play. Progesterone and estrogen can raise libido quite a lot in people.
I could say the same thing in that the DHT user is also using other medications such as tadalafil.
Many reports of fitness/bodybuilders using many hormones who also have erection problems.
Even with people who have normal hormone blood panel all in range can have libido or erection issues.
I’ve never heard about 5ARi stopping the production and breakdown of a number of different hormones.
Other factors in libido and sexual function are things like dopamine, noradrenaline, acetylcholine, nitric oxide, melanocortin, testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, and other things.
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Completely different effect, though complimentary.
That is not relevant.
I had my own direct experience to draw from. It informed my opinion of how the drug impacted my body.
It implies that it is possible the drug could have the same effect on somebody else; it does not imply that the drug would have the same effect on everybody else.
One also cannot conclude from a study that something will impact them the way it impacted the subjects in a study. The study result is like being told “we pulled 100 balls from this urn and 90 were black, five were white, and five were white and black.” Okay, if you pull a ball from the urn you might reasonably expect it to be black. You would be within reason to expect it might be white. Nothing about the study result implies the ball you pull couldn’t be purple or green.
Of course it’s all a probability game. We’re combining observations from human and animal studies, in vitro studies, mechanistic speculation, post marketing surveillance, Reddit, etc. But none of that over rules somebody’s own experience with respect to them—it just means you can reasonably discount the importance of their experience with respect to yours.
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Yeah don’t take medications or supplements if you can’t tolerate them.
For what it’s worth, I take 1 mg dutasteride per day, so I have less DHT less a preteen girl, and it’s had no impact on sexual function or gym performance. My strength is as high as it’s ever been. I’m not claiming it’s improved performance, but it definitely hasn’t hurt, and my mental health is very good, no brain fog, no depression, no anxiety.
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Reading accounts like yours and reviewing the clinical literature helped me decide to try it. I noticed an impact very quickly, but I continued taking it for a couple months, because I didn’t really care about the erection and libido effects. Frankly, being less caught up in sexual thoughts was kind of nice. What framed me out was a little tingling and tenderness in my nipples that made me think I might be on the cusp of developing some gynecomastia. That is what made me stop taking it.
What I understand is that everybody is used to a different baseline, and everybody has different amounts of receptors. So one person’s experience will not be identical to the next person’s. I don’t think suppressing DHT necessarily made my muscles less responsive to training, but I think it made my attitude in the weight room different. Changing the music I listen to has as big an impact. Thinking during heavy sets has as big an impact. That does not mean it was not impactful for me; nor does it suggest that it would necessarily be impactful for anybody else.
For what it’s worth, when I started supplementing boron it felt the opposite way. It didn’t turn me into a werewolf or something, but it definitely bolstered my inner aggression. That one I was able to corroborate with reduced SHBG and increased free T in labs. I never had DHT or estradiol checked—not before, during, or after finasteride—so I cannot say how those changed.
I have never done TRT, so I can’t comment directly on that.
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