Such as? I am concerned that one cannot readily buy grass fed cream products.
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AnUser
#42
Just another supplement with no causal evidence for it (i.e clinical trials or mendelian randomization), I did find some evidence of other fatty acids, and based on this evidence, it no way justifies heavy saturated fat intake which in clinical trials is terrible for your health.
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I’m sure this has been discussed here on the forum elsewhere, but this seems like a really interesting molecule.
It would be hard to know whether or not you are deficient without a test. But, I assume you should be able to track this pretty easily through lipid and HBa1c markers.
Here’s a link to the product.
Neo
#46
Hi @KarlT could you share just a sentence or two about the video - that way it helps people know whether to start watching it or not
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Video says:
- body doesn’t make any c15 so we need to supplement it (100 mg/day) to get any
- can get plenty from dairy fat but you also get other fats which are not good for you (he says)
- can get it from fish but he doesn’t know which kind
- similar to but not a substitute for omega 3s
- shares many of the beneficial effects of rapamycin (perhaps better than rapa due to being a GRAS vs a FDA approved pharmaceutical)
- shares many of the beneficial efffects of metformin
My note: I’ve started eating fatty Greek yogurt instead of fat free to get at this c15. I hope it works. I also eat fatty fish. Finger crossed.
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Top 100 Foods With Pentadecanoic Acid (15:0) - Care Omnia Nutrition
I don’t how reliable these numbers are. but they make me wonder if I really need to supplement with C15? probably not.
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Bicep
#51
The supp would be just C15. The foods are filled with even fats. I don’t worry too much about it because I think sat fat is good, but I’m wrong all the time.
Thanks. Greek yogurt and eggs shown as a good source.
Plain whole milk = 67mg per 100g (100 calories)
Vanilla low fat = 33mg per 100g (prob similar to plain low fat) = 80 calories.
Egg = approx 25mg per 100g (½ an egg = 40 calories)
I’m getting way more than 100mg per day of C15 in my diet, according to this.
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KarlT
#53
Do we have any solid evidence that this “100 mg” means anything? Too high? Too low?
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mccoy
#54
In her above posted presentation Vatson says the content of C15:10 is very variable in milk due to many factors such as type of feed (more if grass-fed, less if corn-fed). We don’t know if the 67 mg/100 g whole milk is an average, a max, a 75th or 95th percentile…
Please note, first she says that the reason why we don’t drink whole milk is probably the cause of deficiency of C15:10 and subsequent illness.
Then she says that whole milk is not a reliable food for C15:10.
Of course, as already cited, saturated fat is causally correlated to increase of CVD mortality risk, because it increases ApoB blood concentration, which is the accepted cause of atherosclerosis.
Dr. Vatson does not say that explicitly. The only safe (and expensive) choice we are left with is supplements.
Dr. Vatson is pretty convincing but having such a hefty interest in that fatty acid it is all too natural to wonder about the potential bias.
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KarlT
#55
Does that make sense to anyone? It’s an essential fatty acid. What was going on before we as a species domesticated cows?
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mccoy
#56
Yes, I absolutely concur, we should also consider the part of the population that doesn’t eat dairy products and exhibits good health (by the way, I am a consumer of dairy products myself but I find no evidence that they are essential to optimal health).
As much as we all would like to have a relatively reasonably priced and available supplement that is up to par with Rapamycin, those conceptual inconsistencies do not appear to help in supporting Dr. Vatson’s own thesis.
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The studies seem very clever and technical. Much of what I’ve seen is mostly cell biology stuff - no outcome data. Also, pretty much all supported by the manufacturer.
The claims seem well beyond what the science supports right now.
My biggest concern is patients being told by Fatty15 that they no longer need Omega 3 fatty acids and this trumps that need. When I talked with the Fatty15 people, they indicated that they don’t recommend this - but then on other sites, they have indicated this.
I think until they have clear outcome data - if someone wants to take Fatty15 - seems very exciting and potentially a great compound … go for it. However, don’t drop anything else you’d normally do, thinking this might be useful until there is better evidence.
I personally don’t have this on my list of meds/supplements I take right now. This might change.
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KarlT
#58
From Consumer Labs:
In fact, despite interesting effects in the laboratory and associations between C15:0 blood levels and lower risks of disease, there do not appear to be any clinical studies evaluating supplementation with C15:0 fatty acid or fatty15 for most conditions, although preliminary evidence suggests C15:0 might have modest benefit for fatty liver disease.
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That is a great and balanced review. The hype, almost all of it done by this group, and without outcome data, is a real problem.
I don’t care if people take this - but I’m really unhappy with one thing the Fatty15 folks have done. This is to tell the public that there is no reason to optimize their Omega 3 index and that Fatty 15 takes care of this.
If they’d not taken that approach, I’d be happier with them.
This may be a wonder supplement - but I doubt it. If people want to take it, go for it - but don’t think that it will end up risk reducing everything in the way they have presented it.
If you read their literature - you’d think this reduces aging better than Rapamycin, and you don’t need to optimize your Omega 3 index.
They may end up proving this in the end - and this would be great - but I’m completely not there as of today, and this is something I do not recommend to my patients now, but also, if they ask me about it - I let them know it might be great, and if not worried about $$, go for it - I don’t think it is harmful.
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That is the link to the full human study. But the authors graciously summarized at the start of the article, for those who prefer summaries. Full study after the summary.
What did the researchers do and find?
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We measured dairy fat consumption using an objective biomarker, serum pentadecanoic acid (15:0), in 4,150 Swedish 60-year-olds and collected information about CVD events and deaths during a median follow-up of 16.6 years.
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When we accounted for known risk factors including demographics, lifestyle, and disease prevalence, the CVD risk was lowest for those with high levels of the dairy fat biomarker 15:0, while those with biomarker levels around the median had the lowest risk of all-cause mortality.
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We also conducted a systematic review and meta-analysis, and **the combined evidence from 18 studies also showed higher levels of 2 dairy fat biomarkers (15:0 and heptadecanoic acid 17:0) were linked with lower risk of CVD,
but not with all-cause mortality.**
Bottom bullet says meta analysis confirms decreased CVD risk with dairy consumption.
Middle bullet says those with highest dairy consumption have the lowest CVD risk, while those in the median had the lowest risk for all cause mortality.
My personal conclusion, dairy in moderation, to achieve both lower (not lowest) CVD risk, and lower all-cause mortality risk. Seems to be a scientific confirmation of “all things in moderation.”
You wanna hedge your bets and include omega 3? Take C15 from fish (candle fish - part of smelt family); or mackerel. Somewhere in the vid, Dr. Boz says candle fish is what dolphins eat.
I must give credit where it is due. I found the paper from Dr. Boz (Annette Bosworth) in the vid below.
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As with everything … moderation is probably sensible, as so many bioactive compounds have U shaped risk mitigation.
The doses that the highest %tiles of individuals would naturally be getting through diet would likely be just a fraction of what is in the Fatty-15 supplement. Do we know whether overdoing this ends up worsening outcomes?
We know with pushing doses of Omega 3’s that there are worse outcomes in some areas - such as stroke/atrial fibrillation. This compound has some similarities.
Until more human data comes forward on outcomes, I’m sticking with holding my Omega 3 index in the 8-12% and not bothering with this supplement. It may end up proving to be all that they claim, and I hope it does, and I’ll be signing up and taking it.
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