#46

How did the blood tests turn out? Did you get confirmation from the trial whether you were in the control arm?

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#47

Thanks for posting. I was an occasional blood donor who transitioned to plasma and platelet donation about 2 years ago after simultaneously being prompted by my blood bank and learning about the Conboy plasma replacement studies. In practice my blood bank takes out 50 mls of whole blood each plasma/platelet donation for testing. Plasma donation can be done every 4 weeks with about 25% of volume (800 ml in my case) taken. Platelet donation can be done more frequently, which I often do in between plasma donation and also takes about 250 to 500 mls per donation. In a years’ time I lose the equivalent of about 1.5 whole blood donations and about 10 to 12 liters of plasma (3 to 4 plasma volumes). All free. Platelets go to cancer patients. At this point I think Kiprov and other MDs are taking advantage of people by charging many thousands of dollars for a process (medical TPE) for which they have not shown a major advantage over the donation process for purposes of life extension. They have, in my opinion, be deliberately silent on this.

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#48

They really are not promoting this yet (at least Kiprov isn’t). The study is still in process, they have not yet announced results (even to the participants like myself) and so its still an open issue in terms of the results / benefits. I think the results, positive or negative, will be announced this year. I’ll ping my contacts at Kiprov’s medical clinic to see if they have any date yet for release of information.

#49

Understand, and hopefully more data will be forthcoming. But even Irina Conboy admitted in one interview that she doesn’t know what effect normal plasma donation would have and if funded would be interested in assessing it. As with many interventions, dose response data along with key markers and frequency of application needs to be worked out. Mean time I will be trying to use some of the human markers in her 2022 paper, along with other blood work to assess before and after various donation procedures.

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#50

My thought exactly, and I did donate blood regularly for many years until my iron depletion became concerning to my doctor and basically he told me to stop because I was too old and probably doing more harm than good.

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#51

I got some surprising news today from Kiprov’s people, regarding the plasmapheresis clinical study I participated in earlier this year. I’ve been pretty sure that I was in the control group because I didn’t feel any benefits at all during the 4 months of treatment (two X 3 hour sessions per month, for a total of 6 sessions over 4 months… scheduling was delayed a bit because of Christmas scheduling and travel, etc.).

I stopped rapamycin about a month prior to participating in the trial and didn’t use rapamycin at all during the clinical trial.

I actually felt better before the trial - and as time went on and the longer I was off rapamycin, and just participating in the trial, the less energy I had.

But, today I heard some surprising news, via an email:

“I am now allowed to reveal that you received the Actual Treatment (TPE); not the placebo, so the study arm that you winded in was a real treatment group.”

So - I’m very surprised to hear this. I was “sure” I was in the placebo. During the study they do a battery of physical tests (grip strength, leg stand test, etc.) and survey questions … and I think my performance stayed pretty flat during the period. I may have improved a little on the physical performance scales, but the woman doing the testing said I was one of the, or the, top performers in many of them and I don’t think that changed so much. I was still exercising during this period, and taking my short list of supplements, but no rapamycin, acarbose, etc.

Now I don’t know what to think. I’ve heard other people who have gone through the plasmapheresis treatments rave about how much more energy they had and how much better they felt. I didn’t experience any of this. And I’m actually a little disappointed that I was in the treatment group, because I didn’t feel any benefits and was assuming that I was in the placebo group, and that now that the trial was over I thought I was actually going to get the treatment (they promised people who were in the placebo group would later get the TPE therapy if the study was successful).

So… it makes me wonder. I also recall Bryan Johnson doing similar young blood transfusions, with what he reported back as minimal positive results. I wonder if perhaps it doesn’t add much value to people who are in reasonable physical condition, and doing rapamycin, or if there is some other factor to consider.

They’ve now called me in to do some more blood work as a followup. It will be interesting to talk to them about the study, and I’ll find out when I might be able to get a copy of the preliminary paper they are going to publish. They are working with the Buck Institute on this, so it should have some good data.

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Lowering the Cost / Improving Access for Therapeutic Plasma Exchange (Plasmapheresis)
#52

I recently asked Ashkay of Yuvan research about some of Harold Katcher’s work since their latest paper revealed that they are using juvenile porcine exosomes. Harold mentioned that they need a huge amount to rejuvenate the rats in their experiments. I was curious and Ashkay said that it’s to essentially flood the system to overcome transcription. Harold also pointed out in an interview that the amount of plasma Bryan Johnson took wouldn’t be sufficient to have any impact, particularly if he’s optimized. It’s increasingly looking as if it’s the exosomes doing the rejuvenation What might be happening with plasma dilution is it’s simply taking out some of the junk, which temporarily upregulates rejuvenation, which might be helpful if you’re unhealthy. Most likely, as you stated, and like Bryan you’re in as good a shape as you can be and didn’t see any discernible benefit.

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#53

If the old exosomes are removed by plasmapheresis before infusion of young exosomes with E5, it seems an intuitive notion that less E5 would be needed to work its magic.

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#54

Sorry for being a little bit slow here, but could someone put a fine point on explaining the difference between this type of plasmapheresis and typical plasma donation?

#55

Plasma donation is limited in the volume that regulations allow to be removed per visit - around 25-30%. Plasmapheresis treatment for longevity/rejuvination would be 70% or more at a sitting. It’s a treatment, so regulations are different. The replacement fluid in both is the same - saline with something like 5% albumin.

Somebody correct me if I got that wrong.

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#56

In the clinical trial I was participating in with Kiprov I believe they said the goal was about 100% plasma filtration during the three hour session. We did 6 sessions, in sets of two (2 in a week, during one month), and the target was three consecutive months but because of Christmas travel I actually took 4 months to do all 6 sessions).

Typical blood volume for people is about 5 liters, about 60% of which is blood plasma (so about 3 liters plasma). A typical donation is about 625 to 800 milliliters of plasma. So - yes about 20% to 20% removal of plasma in a plasma donation). You can do up to 2 plasma donations in a seven day period, and depending on the organization, up to 50 to 100 donations total in a year.

Sources:

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#57

I got some surprising news today from Kiprov’s people, regarding the plasmapheresis clinical study I participated in earlier this year.

In Irina Conboy’s recent paper of 2022 Aug 24 she states:

“rounds of therapeutic plasma exchange (TPE) promote a global shift to a younger systemic proteome, including youthfully restored pro-regenerative, anticancer, and apoptotic regulators…”

If I get therapeutic plasma exchange, and get this result, then for me it is a success. I am not expecting to feel better. I am only expecting it to help prevent chronic diseases of the future.

I think therapeutic plasma exchange will have the best effect on people over age 60, and not in perfect health. If age 50 and in perfect health then I would not expect the person to feel better now.

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#58

You may be right… there may have been benefits that I don’t feel. I’m going in soon for another round of blood tests, and that might reveal some benefits. I’ll report back when I know more.

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#59

I went in for my Post-treatment blood tests as part of this clinical trial today. A few things I learned. They are hoping (if all things go well) to have results in about 6 months (and at some point they hope to publish results). They are working with the Buck Institute and Steven Horvath on the biological clock and blood analysis part of the study.

I also asked more about the percent of plasma they target when doing the plasmapheresis treatments. They said they typically target 90% to 100%, but that there is albumin already in the piping of the plasmapheresis machine, so the net effect is 62% to 70% plasma replacement.

In addition (prior to) the blood tests we did their survey and battery of functional tests that they have done every time I went in. This included grip strength test, balance on one leg test, and walking speed test (sit in a chair, get up and walk to a line about 20 feet away and return the the chair and sit down as quickly as you can. My numbers on all these tests have been pretty consistent during the entire clinical trial; grip strength around 60, balance test maxed out at 2 minutes, and about 5 to 6 seconds for the walking cycle.

This is the first meeting since they told me I was in the treatment cohort of the study. Given the consistent results pre, during and post the therapy, and my lack of noticing anything during the treatment period (in terms of energy, etc.), I can’t say too much about the noticeable benefits of plasmapheresis treatments yet. The proof will be in the biological clock data that Horvath and others reveal from the analysis. I look forward to seeing that.

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#60

I’m at the Longevity Summit at the Buck Institute right now. I just ran into Dobri Kiprov. He tells me that he’ll be at the A4M conference in Vegas next week presenting the preliminary results from the clinical trial. He tells me the results are good.

If anyone is attending that conference, please post the details!

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#61

Dr. Kiprov’s latest lecture and the preliminary results of the plasmapheresis clinical trial for aging, which was presented at the A4M Longevity Fest last week in Las Vegas.

I was in group A or B (they haven’t told me which one).

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#62

It looks like it worked for other people. Maybe you’re too healthy.

#63

I doubt it… as they say, there is no such thing as “healthy aging” :slight_smile:

Perhaps the added benefit over rapamycin is minimal, or perhaps my biological age improved but didn’t change how I feel. I’ll be doing some new bloodwork soon and see how my Levine Phenotypic measure is doing… and report back.

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#64

How was Dr Kiprov in person? In his presentation he seems like he is struggling and having some brain aging issues. I would think he would be getting the treatment often but I heard somewhere he doesnt do the TPE treatment himself, which is confusing.

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#65

I can’t say I’ve spent a lot of time talking with Dr. Kiprov. As a new patient in the clinical trial Stella, who was the main clinical trial person I interacted with, introduced me one day to Dr. Kirprov when we was in getting the treatments. I spent most of my time with Stella who did the record keeping and functional testing, then with the RNs who actually administer the plasmapheresis. There is at least one other doctor who I think oversees the clinic and I spoke with him for quite a while asking questions about the details of the trial and plasmapheresis more generally. The only other time I spoke with Dobri Kiprov was when I ran into him at the Buck Institute in December of this year and I introduced myself again and asked about when the result would be available.

I have no idea about his own use TPE or other issues. He is an older guy (I think he’s about 74 years old) and doesn’t look like he follows any sort of rigorous exercise regimen, so I suspect he could benefit from a Peter Attia like longevity program.